Wallabies v Italy Take 2 - changes a bloody plenty
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Cutter
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Gagger said:
The boys on TSF are talking about Messam and Read not being able to handle No.8 so I'm not alone in thinking it requires discrete skills and that not all backrowers have those skills. Smith has shown previously he can handle no.8 but I wouldnt want him to be our only no. 8 option. I saw a couple of Leinster's games and Rocky was playing no.6 when they were at full strength, with Heaslip at no.8. I just dont think Elsom is ready to be a no. 8. Maybe if he had a season of S14 he might be ok.
I agree re 3 opensides. Waugh shouldnt be in the squad.
G
GC
Guest
I get the feeling this could be a close victory (i.e. 3 -7 pts) or a complete blowout (35+) with this team - depending on if the forward mix works. Maybe with the constant turnover you'd expect with the back row and the shit Iti backs never going forward, Aus will always be on the front foot, whether defending or attacking. Quade and JOC (James O'Connor) might weave some magic together.
Front row is the biggest worry. Perhaps, combined with TPNs throws, we'll win a match without winning a single lineout or scrum. Losing is not an option I'll consider.
Front row is the biggest worry. Perhaps, combined with TPNs throws, we'll win a match without winning a single lineout or scrum. Losing is not an option I'll consider.
S
Spook
Guest
Ok so we have no specialist tight head in the 22 and a hooker who can't throw straight. I am very bloody nervous - we have just surrendered the set piece. :nta: :-\
S
Spook
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fatprop said:
I know he is better but he is still flakey. Given the scrum woes, lineout will be pretty important.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
No THP reserve? No THP - period -
We are going into a game with 3x 7s and 3x 1s. Feck me it really is sink or swim time for some of these guys, and a big calculated risk from Deans.
I expect to see a Deans led Crusaders style of mass changes with Moore, Robinson, Sharpe and Giteau all coming on with 30mins to go if we are behind in the game.
Strangely enough one of the biggest problems I have with the team is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) not getting a starting shot at the 13 jersey. I think he has much more potential than Cross, and is the man I want primed to replace Mortlock when retired/injured.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
While I’m sure Deans will want to continue the standard of tactical kicking, and territory domination, I wonder if the game plan will be based on the fringes and out wider. Looking at that pack again, it must be one of the fastest ones ever assembled for Australia. They will probably look to run the Italians ragged.
Scotty said:
bang on Scotty, yeah sure the set piece may be a concern, but its a fairly freakily mobile pack. If we can get some ball, then the runners such as the entire front row, stuff that, the entire pack can make big inroads. And can support our outside men.
I'm with you fp, we have seen the problems before with an inexperienced front row, and semi-detached back row getting reamed backwards rapidly.fatprop said:
I disagree with Cutter that Smith has shown himself to be a good 8. When? Just because he is a good 7 and generally talented does not imbue him with #8 skills that translate. With the rest of the pack being gazelles apparently, I would prefer a more solid option at 8.
And yeah, Gagger, the old "Rocky can't do it" chestnut loses some weight wiht the assumption that Smith can.
Of course, Deans probably knows better than any of us, and I will have egg on my face like many others. I hope so. I'll be very happy to be proved wrong.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Smith is probably the only forward we have with enough ball skills to be able to pick up the ball while our pack is being shoved backwards at 60mph vs the Italians this weekend.
The main problem I see with Smith as an 8 is the go forward around the rucks, but lets face it, Brown wasn't exactly offering that last game, was he?
The main problem I see with Smith as an 8 is the go forward around the rucks, but lets face it, Brown wasn't exactly offering that last game, was he?
Grandmaster Flash
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Scotty said:
Smith last played 8 against the Poms at HQ in the infamous '05 EOYT, so he's had experience picking up the ball from a scrum getting reamed.
ahh, fuck it. I'm happy for it all to happen.
We don't have Aussie A to give us a false sense of security about these players. This is the best chance for them all to get tested under pretty extreme circumstances.
Robbie has talked about leaders stepping up, and in the team he has chosen you get the impression he will be watching the likes of Hynes, Barnes, Burgess, Smith, Mumm, Horwill and even JOC (James O'Connor).
At the same time, elite players need to be challenged in order to improve. This way these young guys, who have a few seasons of S14 under the belt (most of them) can't sit back and rely on Morty or the like. They must enter the match know that they need to do it for themselves.
The other factor is will Morty and Baxter be there in 2011? That has to play very real on Deans's mind. Personally I am now doubting it. I, like fp, would have liked Baxter on the bench but it means Alexander enters the match knowing that he's the man. He has to step up and meet the challenge. Likewise Cowan, he's the next in line. He will need to be ready to meet the challenge of playing THP at some stage.
The other factor is the last time (before the last test) we played Italy. We went in with a few risks:
Turner playing only his 2nd test (after an unimpressive debut v France) on the wing.
Tahu playing inside centre
Ione's 2nd test on the wing, at the time being more known for his dodgy hands & dodgy tackling.
Barnes playing 10.
Burgess 2nd game back from injury.
Brown's 2nd starting test
Waugh, out of form, at openside.
Mumm on the side.
MMM and Chisolm at lock.
Dunning at THP
Alexander's first test at LHP starting.
Then we had Kepu, JOC (James O'Connor) and Quade all debuting from the bench. Along with Pocock's 2nd test off the bench.
And we scraped home there, in an away match.
There are arguably a few more risks taken here, but the match is at home and I don't think Italy really showed us too much to be worried about last week. I mean they've scored 3 tries all year right?
We don't have Aussie A to give us a false sense of security about these players. This is the best chance for them all to get tested under pretty extreme circumstances.
Robbie has talked about leaders stepping up, and in the team he has chosen you get the impression he will be watching the likes of Hynes, Barnes, Burgess, Smith, Mumm, Horwill and even JOC (James O'Connor).
At the same time, elite players need to be challenged in order to improve. This way these young guys, who have a few seasons of S14 under the belt (most of them) can't sit back and rely on Morty or the like. They must enter the match know that they need to do it for themselves.
The other factor is will Morty and Baxter be there in 2011? That has to play very real on Deans's mind. Personally I am now doubting it. I, like fp, would have liked Baxter on the bench but it means Alexander enters the match knowing that he's the man. He has to step up and meet the challenge. Likewise Cowan, he's the next in line. He will need to be ready to meet the challenge of playing THP at some stage.
The other factor is the last time (before the last test) we played Italy. We went in with a few risks:
Turner playing only his 2nd test (after an unimpressive debut v France) on the wing.
Tahu playing inside centre
Ione's 2nd test on the wing, at the time being more known for his dodgy hands & dodgy tackling.
Barnes playing 10.
Burgess 2nd game back from injury.
Brown's 2nd starting test
Waugh, out of form, at openside.
Mumm on the side.
MMM and Chisolm at lock.
Dunning at THP
Alexander's first test at LHP starting.
Then we had Kepu, JOC (James O'Connor) and Quade all debuting from the bench. Along with Pocock's 2nd test off the bench.
And we scraped home there, in an away match.
There are arguably a few more risks taken here, but the match is at home and I don't think Italy really showed us too much to be worried about last week. I mean they've scored 3 tries all year right?
Newb
Trevor Allan (34)
good points Noddy
getting Pek in there also secures him for Wallaby only use in the future (not that I'm saying that was a must-do
)
it really is a shame that there is no Aussie A anymore for a few reasons. one being that players don't get a crack at high-level international experience before getting thrown to the fire. and yes, i'm excluding under 20s and 7s in that statement. all good things, but not the same as playing the Junior ABs in my mind.... thus we see the lineup Deans has put forth in the upcoming test. have to get the new/younger guys in somehow, right?
the other reason is it takes away a chance to secure players for the Wallabies in the future so they can't go running off to play for some other country. teams with junior sides still have this luxury. i'm don't think it will lead to the emptying of the stables so to speak, but it's certainly easier for other countries to lock up their young guys to further develop later. one game and they're on the books.
getting Pek in there also secures him for Wallaby only use in the future (not that I'm saying that was a must-do
)it really is a shame that there is no Aussie A anymore for a few reasons. one being that players don't get a crack at high-level international experience before getting thrown to the fire. and yes, i'm excluding under 20s and 7s in that statement. all good things, but not the same as playing the Junior ABs in my mind.... thus we see the lineup Deans has put forth in the upcoming test. have to get the new/younger guys in somehow, right?
the other reason is it takes away a chance to secure players for the Wallabies in the future so they can't go running off to play for some other country. teams with junior sides still have this luxury. i'm don't think it will lead to the emptying of the stables so to speak, but it's certainly easier for other countries to lock up their young guys to further develop later. one game and they're on the books.
Newb
Trevor Allan (34)
Noddy said:
true, i forgot 7s serves as a lock in too. but i guess not everyone goes through that system so lacking the A side is still a negative in that department for my thinking. all you have to do is look at your proposed team in the other posting to think about all the uncapped potentials that could be tied to Australia by now without having to play for the Wallabies or 7s. especially when you include some of the guys off injured or on U20 duty. it's a good list ;D
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