Wallabies v Italy, Florence, Sun 13th Nov 12am AEDT

[Ignoto]

said they have to be passionate about Australian rugby, and I’ll stand by that. More specifically they need to be passionate about the Wallabies succeeding. Rennie ticks no boxes, he is a kiwi with a shit W/L record.

This is such a weird take considering how much you back Beale who has demonstrated to be a cancer to culture in almost every team he's been a part of.

Rennie and co aren't excused for the poor selections, but, due to such a woeful S&C program, between managing workload and dealing with injuries, there must be close to 20-30 people who weren't selectable for this match.

I disagree completely with the notion of 5 matches being too much for this playing group. It's obvious to see it was designed to help replicate the rigours of next year. You're going to need to rotate your team in the 3 week window of pool games.

 

[Adam84]

Also, can we select some hookers who don’t mess up the throws on attacking 5m lineouts

 

[LeCheese]

I'll have to reply to myself because I really think there is something to this.
England got away with so many penalties. So do other teams. But Australia get called for random shit that happeneds multiple times in the game. Like last night
Seat belt tackle, off feet when cleaning out, line outs not straight etc. Both sides did these things multiple times and one side got called for it. Small penalties or turnovers that all teams do but for some reason the Wallabies get called for it at random points in the game which stifles any opportunity.
The guys are not talking back to the ref anymore which is great and the right direction. I'm hoping this works soon and we stop copping random 50/50 calls that no other teams get pinged for. I'm 4 min into watching South Africa France and have seen 3 seatbelt tackles with no issue

Never deserved to beat Italy. Don't get me wrong. But the turnovers and penalties from these calls are out of control. Like the game this year where our scrumhalf got called not putting the ball into the scrum straight 2 or 3 times. Out of no where. No one refs it, no one cares but all of a sudden a red gets a hard on against Australia and calls it multiple times in a game.

Shigs, I really recommend you read up on Confirmation Bias if you aren’t familiar. Your blood pressure might thank you

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[eastman]

I think we all recognise that Noah needs to develop his game management more, but how can he do that when he's not being selected? It is almost universal that posters here have wanted Noah to get more game time, and to start in some tests so that he can get better skills or show that he doesn't have them.

Game management is not the issue, It’s the fact, that for whatever reason, our attack is abysmal whenever Lolesio is directing it.

Our attack has generally been poor recently but Lolesio/ Paisami combination seems to take it to an even more ineffectual level.

Italy were fundamentally better with ball-in-hand, they didn‘t beat us in the set piece or effort but because the were able to create and execute opportunities.

 

[KOB1987]

This is such a weird take considering how much you back Beale who has demonstrated to be a cancer to culture in almost every team he's been a part of.

Rennie and co aren't excused for the poor selections, but, due to such a woeful S&C program, between managing workload and dealing with injuries, there must be close to 20-30 people who weren't selectable for this match.

I disagree completely with the notion of 5 matches being too much for this playing group. It's obvious to see it was designed to help replicate the rigours of next year. You're going to need to rotate your team in the 3 week window of pool games.

The weird take is you bringing up Kurtley Beale, I don’t think I have even mentioned him in the context of Wallaby selection since he left our shores. The ‘cancer on culture’ you mention is your opinion only and from my intel not replicated by those who played with him.

By the same token, my views on Rennie are mine only. I didn’t ever criticize the selections, and agree that rotation was necessary. My criticism is that they are poorly coached.

 

[Marce]

He really isn't. Deans blew an historic Lions series by not having Quade at 10. Wallabies had front-foot ball for majority of the Brisbane match and would've undoubtedly won that game with Cooper pulling the strings. I can't think of a more costly selection error from any Wallabies coach. Rennie quite frankly doesn't even compare, at least there's sound reasoning behind most of his team selections.

That's not fair. Are u beting on Quade's performance for a big game like that???? Quade was one of the most inconsistent players in the world at that time. He could win or lose but he wasn't a reliable test player like Johny Wilkinson or John Eales, I never would have bet on him.

The Lions tour is a special moment every 12 years. They have a full strength squad of 50 players availables, it's not a common series. In Deans Era Wallabies used to be a 2/3 at World rankings. Now you are a Top 10 nation. With Robbie Deans in charge you never would lose against Italy

 

[eastman]

It’s not a lack of cohesion within the team- some of the players are fundamentally not good enough.

 

[wamberal]

That's not fair. Are u beting on Quade's performance for a big game like that???? Quade was one of the most inconsistent players in the world at that time. He could win or lose but he wasn't a reliable test player like Johny Wilkinson or John Eales, I never would have bet on him.

The Lions tour is a special moment every 12 years. They have a full strength squad of 50 players availables, it's not a common series. In Deans Era Wallabies used to be a 2/3 at World rankings. Now you are a Top 10 nation. With Robbie Deans in charge you never would lose against Italy

They bloody nearly did, they were saved by Cooper coming off the bench in the last few minutes and running 30 metres through heavy traffic.

 

[Drew]

I think we all recognise that Noah needs to develop his game management more, but how can he do that when he's not being selected? It is almost universal that posters here have wanted Noah to get more game time, and to start in some tests so that he can get better skills or show that he doesn't have them.

Having agreed there, I certainly do not agree that Foley's game management skills are anything to write home about. I really do think that anyone playing 10 in this team and under the current coaches will have severe issues with running a backline that has little or no flair in attack and relies solely on individual skills to create something. And when they're missing Kerevi, Koroibete, Kellaway and Campbell is so obviously affected by some virus over the week's preparation, then even those individual skills are very scarce. A fit and firing Campbell in this match probably would have been enough to bring the win.

I’m not getting involved in if Noah is the right player or not for the 10 job. But the selectors did him a huge disservice by not dropping him down to Australia A to give him game time whilst they were playing Foley. He might’ve played 12 in U20s, but he’s only really considered a 10 at present. He’s going to get next to no game time off the bench at 10.

 

[gel]

I'll have to reply to myself because I really think there is something to this.
England got away with so many penalties. So do other teams. But Australia get called for random shit that happeneds multiple times in the game. Like last night
Seat belt tackle, off feet when cleaning out, line outs not straight etc. Both sides did these things multiple times and one side got called for it. Small penalties or turnovers that all teams do but for some reason the Wallabies get called for it at random points in the game which stifles any opportunity.
The guys are not talking back to the ref anymore which is great and the right direction. I'm hoping this works soon and we stop copping random 50/50 calls that no other teams get pinged for. I'm 4 min into watching South Africa France and have seen 3 seatbelt tackles with no issue

Never deserved to beat Italy. Don't get me wrong. But the turnovers and penalties from these calls are out of control. Like the game this year where our scrumhalf got called not putting the ball into the scrum straight 2 or 3 times. Out of no where. No one refs it, no one cares but all of a sudden a red gets a hard on against Australia and calls it multiple times in a game.

The bold bit is not correct.

They absolutely are still talking at the referee. Could hear it through this telecast with constant "offside", "off their feet" etc being yelled at the referee. Even last match, White was warned by Jaco. Twice.

Fixing that perception is probably going to take years of not doing it. And even doing it once is likely to restart the perception all over again.

 

[RugbyReg]

That's a weird defence for why McReight was average. He had his chance and he didn't fire. Can't be blaming Samu and Hanigan for that.

I'm not. You just have a pavlov anti-Red thing.

It's the same for Hanigan. Don't say 'this is your chance to make your claim for the test jersey' and then put him with McReight and Samu. Put him with Valetinie and Hooper. We can't say 'ok everyone, this is your time to step and prove yourself but we are putting you with a bunch of guys we consider not good enough to be in our best team'. It's terrible coaching and I can't think of a time it has worked.

 

[Rebel man]

With less than a year for WC is impossible. But Rugby Australia should sign Scott Robertson for 2024 ASAP

And? We are going to struggle to get out of the pool at the WC. So why stick with what isn’t working?

 

[Marce]

They bloody nearly did, they were saved by Cooper coming off the bench in the last few minutes and running 30 metres through heavy traffic.

I remember that try, I was a QC (Quade Cooper) fan at that time lol. But they managed to beat Italy in the last 10 minutes. It's the old story, hundreds of times the Wallabies could beat the ABs but finally lost for a kick, a penalty or a silly mistake. This is the same, they managed the game to beat the Italians, that's the point. Rennie alredy lost against Italy, that's a different story, nearly is nearly.

 

[RugbyReg]

He really isn't. Deans blew an historic Lions series by not having Quade at 10. Wallabies had front-foot ball for majority of the Brisbane match and would've undoubtedly won that game with Cooper pulling the strings. I can't think of a more costly selection error from any Wallabies coach. Rennie quite frankly doesn't even compare, at least there's sound reasoning behind most of his team selections.

weird take. I actually re-watched that Reds v Lions game from that year. QC (Quade Cooper) was pretty damn average. Definitely a much lessor player than he is now and MUCH lessor than he was in 2010/211

 

[Rebel man]

Not so much out of arrogance, more to do with not grinding the first choice options into the ground.

As per Marce's post, the 5-game tour meant he had to rest players.

Rennie's not the best coach going but he's not the worst either. As a noted French general (not Raynal) might have put it, ... he's not been lucky. Tends to be over-conservative, as well. These two things feed into each other.

Should he be fired today? No.

That's not positive or negative spin. Rennie will see out the year and (probably) the next ... not least because Rugby Australia is a bit skint.

Our cattle aren't a top-4 prospect at the moment. Need to develop more consistency and find some brain cells.

5 games in 5 weeks my heart bleeds for them, most blokes do that work full time and have to fit gym workouts and training in around it.

They are coming off a 5 week break on top of that.

 

[Marce]

5 games in 5 weeks my heart bleeds for them, most blokes do that work full time and have to fit gym workouts and training in around it.

They are coming off a 5 week break on top of that.

Yeah but you have to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. The only SH nation playing 5 games with his full squad is Australia, that not make sense. In order to earn extra cash you are losing prestige cause you don't have 2 test teams.

If the game against Italy would have been played by Australia A, the atmosphere here would have been quiet different.

It's a management issue, even the Pumas can manage to play only 3 games

 

[Viking]

Also, can we select some hookers who don’t mess up the throws on attacking 5m lineouts

There are none. Remember 2-3 years ago all the Hookers missing throws and Fainga was actually the most accurate one. Yeah that's right, Fainga was the most accurate thrower. That's how bad our hooker depth is.

 

[KOB1987]

There are none. Remember 2-3 years ago all the Hookers missing throws and Fainga was actually the most accurate one. Yeah that's right, Fainga was the most accurate thrower. That's how bad our hooker depth is.

‘Our’ meaning the Brumbies?

piss take aside, Porecki, BPA, Uelese and Latu all are good throwers. Some have other issues, but that’s not what I’m commenting on.

 

[Juan Cote]

Go back further to TPN and Latu. This isn’t a new problem.

 

[Marce]

There are none. Remember 2-3 years ago all the Hookers missing throws and Fainga was actually the most accurate one. Yeah that's right, Fainga was the most accurate thrower. That's how bad our hooker depth is.

You don't lose just for a hooker. The Italians smashed the Wallabies backrow at the breakdown hundreds of times