Wallabies v France 3rd Test - 21 June Sydney

[wamberal]

I don't know what to make of that. I find it really strange that a lock is not a lineout jumper. It is one of the primary functions of a lock in my opinion.

As a former lineout jumper, I am certain that Skelton can learn to win ball at 2. All it takes is for him to get up a bit, he does not even have to be lifted, he can get his arms ahead of the opposition player, he is strong enough to get the ball (the hooker throws in after he starts to jump).


A test match team needs to have four lineout options, or defensive threats. Usually the two locks, the 8, and the 6. We cannot afford to go into serious games with one lock who cannot (or will not) jump, as well as Palu, who is a pretty poor jumper as well. Any good team will kill us.

 

[Pete King]

No one called for To'omua at 10 it was just responses to the person who said he wasn't a playmaker. Which is rubbish.

Lilo a great tackler so wouldn't be a problem at 10 or 12.

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Lilo barring injury is a long shot to feature at end of the year

 

[Pete King]

Just watched the game paying particular attention to Skelton.

Pete King, figured it throw you a response and say I thought Skelton had a great game. Nothing he did showed him to be a higher choice in the LOCK pecking order. Considering he offered the worst involvement out of all locks this series in his set piece involvements surely this is a consideration when discussing how well he played his position?

It needs to be asked, will McCaw fall off his tackles the way the French back row did? Not at all knocking will, just saying that with better defence he won't look as effective.
.

He took two lineouts, the first of the match actually that gave me a little giggle. I would suggest that Thierry Dusautoir is a world class player and he was one that he brushed off so it is feasable that he would do the same to Sir Richie. You say that he hasnt showed himself to be a higher choice in the lock pecking order. I disagree, I think Link will too. The lineout and scrum functioned well with him there and he showed to be easily the most destructive ball carrier of our locks. His work at the breakdown was good also. You mentioned a flop or two which basically will happen to most players over the course of a game as they have committed to a breakdown that has already been won at the last minute.

 

[wamberal]

Gigantor can jump. Most hookers can't throw the ball high enough without getting clearance from Air Traffic Control.

That picture must be a fake, shirley?

 

[Scotty]

Cooper and Genia are injured, that's why there's less criticism of White and Foley. They're going to be the playmakers regardless. Not saying we can't criticise them and we have but there's a difference when Genia and Cooper are playing poorly and there's other options.

What does the availability of other players have to do with commenting (or not commenting) on another player's performance?

The two don't have to be linked to one other.

I for one hope that Foley improves greatly, because Link missed the chance in the final 20-30 of playing To'omua at 10 and Beale at 12 (in attack - other way in defense) to see how they would combine, which could have been a viable option for the RC. Now we are stuck with Foley.

 

[qwerty51]

Wow Chapman is doing it tough.

 

[qwerty51]

What does the availability of other players have to do with commenting (or not commenting) on another player's performance?

Nah it's not that it's more people complaining that Genia/Cooper get more criticism than White/Foley.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That picture must be a fake, shirley?

I don't think Mark Metcalfe and Getty Images are into photoshopping.

Source: http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Will+Skelton/Entertainment+Best+Pictures+Day+November+19/hdwBWxUDW3Z
Will Skelton takes a lineout during a Waratahs Super Rugby training session at Centennial Park on November 21, 2013 in Sydney, Australia.
(November 20, 2013 - Source: Mark Metcalfe/Getty Images AsiaPac)

 

[Tomikin]

Wow Chapman is doing it tough.

Que ?

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[Tomikin]

Que ?

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I get it now never mind

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[Pfitzy]

Also Pfitzy, just wanted to say I noticed Will flop on quite a few rucks without taking out a player. Not a criticism of him as every player has ineffective involvements at points of a game, just noticed you haven't bagged him for it like you do Simmons.

I haven't watched the game back yet.

And I don't bag Simmons for ruck flopping.

I bag him for being an utter lightweight in contact - with or without the ball. I saw it a couple of times yesterday but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt until I've watched the replay.

 

[Ruggo]

If you play Skelton, just balance out the pack to cover the lineout option. We currently carry a tall six with good lineout skills in Fardy. The flip side with Skelton is that you gain a powerful lifter. Anyhow I've seen Skelton take lineout ball for the Tahs.

My experience generally is that most of the upwards motion of the jumper is generated by the jumper himself and the lifters generally only provide stability and a little extra time in the air for the jumper.

 

[wamberal]

I don't think Mark Metcalfe and Getty Images are into photoshopping.

Source: http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Will Skelton/Entertainment Best Pictures Day November 19/hdwBWxUDW3Z
Will Skelton takes a lineout during a Waratahs Super Rugby training session at Centennial Park on November 21, 2013 in Sydney, Australia.
(November 20, 2013 - Source: Mark Metcalfe/Getty Images AsiaPac)

So why, in the name of Eales, does Skelton resolutely refuse to leave the ground during an actual game?

 

[Tomikin]

I haven't watched the game back yet.

And I don't bag Simmons for ruck flopping.

I bag him for being an utter lightweight in contact - with or without the ball. I saw it a couple of times yesterday but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt until I've watched the replay.

All our forwards where good. Reserves as well

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[wamberal]

If you play Skelton, just balance out the pack to cover the lineout option. We currently carry a tall six with good lineout skills in Fardy.

Most teams have a 6 with good lineout skills. They also often have an 8 with lineout skills (which Palu is not). Two locks ditto.


So you are okay with our two lineout options, against four for most opposing teams?


The national coach needs to do something about this. I cannot, will not, believe that an international second rower cannot, or will not, jump in lineouts. It just beggars belief. What next, a fly half who can't kick? (Ooops, we've got one of those, although he has improved a bit).


Bugger me, we struggle to beat the ABs, the Bokke, and the Dodgers at the best of times, why handicap ourselves like this?

 

[Tomikin]

So why, in the name of Eales, does Skelton resolutely refuse to leave the ground during an actual game?

Speed of jump, match a good jumper against Willie they will get up quicker and probably in front. I think Simmions Fardy Horwill Carter Higgins and most decent defensive locks would make a meal of him.

The trick to him being a jumper is the call and movement to trick the other team to not be on him.

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[Ruggo]

So who'll start against the AB's?

Carter or Skelton?

Two very different players who've both had excellent debut performances....

And will they push Horwill out of the 23?

I think very likely they will push Horwill to the Bench but not out of the 23. What Horwill will have despite not in his best form is that experience factor. The intensity in the RC is going to be much higher.

I would go Carter for the All Blacks for the more rounded game which will be played at a higher pace and intensity than what we have seen. I wouldn't mind Seeing Willie unleashed on the Boks though. The pace of the game might be more suited to him and he will be a good counter against their power game.

 

[KOB1987]

I reckon unless Fardy has an awesome finish to the Super Rugby season we are going to see McCalman at 6, or Higginbotham. Fardy has been a bit disappointing, McCalman has been a rock.

 

[KOB1987]

And Beale at 10....

 

[Slim 293]

I reckon unless Fardy has an awesome finish to the Super Rugby season we are going to see McCalman at 6, or Higginbotham. Fardy has been a bit disappointing, McCalman has been a rock.

You've been smoking crack.........

Fardy was quiet yesterday but was one of our best in the first two tests........

Higgers isn't going to replace any of those players, and McCalman is a solid 6/8 replacement off the bench........