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Wallabies v England in Melbourne, 18 June

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Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Maybe. But hooper had no impact on the breakdown last night. And Pocock's gone. We'll get owned there if we don't have McMahon or Gill on the paddock. And I can't see where else to shoehorn him in. McMahon and Gill don't have enough impact to play 8.
I take your point about Houston - it's a risk but there's not a clear alternative.


Man - I've heard biased and i try and sit on the fence.
I reckon reds will top the Aussie conference next year - and i hope they do, given what they have gone through and their rebuild. BUT BUT.

Hooper was our best last night, it would be clear the game plan was to not have Hooper hard on the ball so making reference to his impact is unjustified.
It would be a waste of talent and purpose having the Pooper playing the same game.

Id pick George Smith before Gill, he's been schooling the players over their for their last season and his award nominations confirm that.

BTW George also plays 8.
 

The torpedo

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Man - I've heard biased and i try and sit on the fence.
I reckon reds will to the Aussie conference - and i hope they do, given what they have gone through and their rebuild. BUT BUT.

Hooper was our best last night, it would be clear the game plan was to not have Hooper hard on the ball so making reference to his impact is unjustified.
It would be a waste of talent and purpose having the Pooper playing the same game.

Id pick George Smith before Gill, he's been schooling the players over their for their last season and his award nominations confirm that.

BTW George also plays 8.

It would be rather awkward for the poms to play against one of their own coaches if that happened!!!!!:)
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
The problem though is that Gill isn't an 8. Unless Hooper or Fardy can play 8 Gill would be on the bench if he is called up to the squad.

Going from the top of the page, but neither was Poey and it worked. I also hadnt though of Gill as playing 8 but maybe - interesting.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
2 years earlier from 2014 or 2 years earlier from now? He wasn't eligible in 2012 and did his hammy in the 2014 semi between the tahs and the brums (which ruled him out until the spring tour, plus he wasn't eligible until the spring tour anyway)


2012, 2013, 2014 he played the best rugby. He wasn't the same when he came back form injury. He got stuffed around with the eligibility rules.
 

tragic

John Solomon (38)
Id pick George Smith before Gill, he's been schooling the players over their for their last season and his award nominations confirm that.

BTW George also plays 8.

I like it!! That would be the closest we have to the pooper.
Don't get me wrong, I rate hooper when there's an 8 whose hard on the ball but we don't have another one in the squad. And whatever Hoopers role was last night his stats in Super rugby show he's behind pocock/Gill/ smith in his work on the ball. It's the other areas he excels.
I'd take smith/ hooper over Gill/hooper, Houston/Gill or McCalman/Hooper as well.
It's honestly not a Reds thing - I just think Hooper/McCalman lacks balance and worry we'll get owned at the breakdown.
 

Froggy

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
IMO, Slipper to start, Sio to the bench, Horwill in for Simmons, McCalman for Pocock, Palu to replace McMahon in a 5/3 bench, Nayarovoro for Horne if he's not fit, Hunt to the bench.
Not sure between Lilo and Kerevi for 12, probably give Kerevi another shot as Lilo didn't exactly play the house down when he came on, and Horne's concussion gave him a pretty good opportunity.
Tragic worries we'll get owned at the breakdown without Pocock. What was it that happened at the breakdown last night??
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
Backs were fine. The two dud passes wont happen again. Forwards need a shakeup. TPNs throwing is still a liability. We need a fetcher with Pocock gone. I'd like to see this

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Arnold
5. Horwill
6. Fardy
7. Gill
8. Houston
9. Phipps
10.Foley
11. Horne
12. Kerevi
13. Kuridrani
14. DHP
15. Folau

16. Ready
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Coleman
20. McCalman
21. Hooper
22. Frisby
23. Lilo

We lose one part of Pooper and you want to send the half to the bench even though he was pretty much our best on the park?
 

tragic

John Solomon (38)
If we all had the same opinions it would be a pretty dull forum!
The pooper works because hooper is an 7 who covers a lot of the traditional roles of an 8, and pocock is an 8 who covers much of the 7 role.
Two great traditional 7s doesn't work - see the Smith and Waugh experiment.
And after last night i want a pilfering 7 in the starting side, paired with a ball running no 8. Gill is the best we have in that role at the moment. But Hooper and Gill together give away too much in the collisions and line outs.
So I'd play them both, but not together.
And I'd rather start with the pilferer and finish with the more expansive player.
It's all about balance in the back row.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
We are going to need another 7 on the bench but I reckon that will be McMahon as cover for 6/7/8. Gill may get called back in as cover.
Cheika will most likely start McCalman or Palu.
Whoever he picks we need to play up tempo rugby for the whole game. The Dodgers had trouble with the pace of the game in the first quarter but were able to slow it down to their pace for most of the remainder of the test.
Neither McCalman or Palu play the game particularly fast.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
I think the two most likely scenarios are that either Palu or Mcalman comes into 8 and Horwill in for Simmons if he is out. Wouldnt be surprised if Carter came in for Simmons as he is basically the same player just doesnt give lineout penalties but instead has tits for hands.

A left field choice for the backrow would be Fardy at eight and Mumm at 6.
Carter has worked diligently on that aspect if his play and now gives away more than his fair share of line out penalties.
 

oztimmay

Tony Shaw (54)
Staff member
Talk that To'omua may be in the mix for Melbourne. Thoughts?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/m...rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Talk that To'omua may be in the mix for Melbourne. Thoughts?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/m...rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed


To'omua would be fixing a non-existent problem. Saturday our problems at 12 started when Lilo came on.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
You're giving a bit too much credit to the thought processes of wingers. Your blindside winger (14) tends to be a second fullback (DHP) while your openside winger (11) can be any mug who is big or fast enough. Maybe both.

With Pocock out, and the knowledge that we did have enough ball running up front as well as doing some stupidly shit things at the breakdown, I think the balance of the forwards will change as follows:

1 Slipper - ball running
2 Moore - more ball running
3 Kepu - ball running
4 Arnold - don't think he'll be discarded, but please fucking stay THE FUCK away from fucking ball running. Fucking PLEASE.
5 Horwill - for Simmons if injured
6 Fardy - stop doing stupid shit
7 Hooper - running the ball like a mad c***
8 Houston - apparently he's been killing it up north

This gives the pack more ball running options, and roles have to be clear on who covers up the ruck and who gets into first receiver.

Other than that I wouldn't be changing a lot - our backs had England's by the short and curlies. If we need a replacement for Horne then you could end up with one of two options:

9 Phipps
10 Foley
11 Morahan* / Naiyaravoro+
12 Kerevi* / Lealiifano+
13 Kuridrani
14 DHP
15 Folau

Those combinations are paired appropriately; if you have Kerevi you need a pace man outside. If you have Lilo you need a bash man for set piece.

Mostly agree, but if I'm nott mistaken the No 14 is the open side winger and 11 is the blind side winger (or Right and Left respectively). I do agree with your description of the roles, and while DHP has shown enough to keep the No 14 jersey, Nabuli would also meet the criteria for the No 11, being big and quite fast. Can't say I've ever seen Nayarovoro play at No 11 though he might have done at SS level. Nabuli plays 11 for the Reds.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Realistically if they're going to keep the squad numbers up, Gill is the likely replacement. Does that get him closer to the XXIII? I doubt it.

Ball running up front is what we lacked.

Exactly, and we won't get any if Ben McCalman comes into 8. Houston would be the best option atm for more ball running capability.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
I think To'omua would be a huge bonus for us. He is step or two above Lealifano in physicality to maintain a good defensive line but also fills that role of the second playmaker./kicker I am sure he would be a close second choice for that role after Giteau for Cheika.
Is he fit though?
We could then have Kerevi and Hunt or Lealifano on the bench alongside Frisby
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
I forgot about Palu. The idea of Palu starting and then being subbed by McMahon certainly has merit, I like it.

If To'omua is fit I'd still start Kerevi but maybe move MT in for Lilo.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
We lose one part of Pooper and you want to send the half to the bench even though he was pretty much our best on the park?


I had the same response as ^^^^^^ but he explained why, and his reasoning could be justified.
He was looking at balance - fair - through some red cellophane.

I cant see Hooper being shifted from 7, so the 8.
McMahon - who plays combination of a 6 & 7 type role? This may have a bigger impact on game tactics, I think he provides great cover an impact off the bench.
McCalman - I don't watch enough of him to fairly comment.
Palu - shit that last game against the chiefs, and a number of others his combinations and balance work with Hooper. But he's 40 minutes.
Gill - as an 8, nobody saw Pockock as an 8 until it happened, most of us were talking Pooper as being 6 & 7. Will be interesting, i don't think we should be carrying Gill & McMahon on the bench though it is one or the other.
Houston - As per McCalman - I havent seen enough of him.


Two great traditional 7s doesn't work - see the Smith and Waugh experiment.
And after last night i want a pilfering 7 in the starting side, paired with a ball running no 8. Gill is the best we have in that role at the moment. But Hooper and Gill together give away too much in the collisions and line outs.
So I'd play them both, but not together.
And I'd rather start with the pilferer and finish with the more expansive player.
It's all about balance in the back row.


I think Smith / Waugh worked at times, the times with Smith played 8 much the same as Pooper.

Question, what brings more;
  • Fetcher?
  • Winning and dominating the collision?
AB's don't run with a raw fetcher any more, and they want to dominate the collision, and create that raw go forward and compliment it with the pop pass, or offload.
NSW haven't had that raw fetcher since Waugh.
When you have the best like Poey, Smith, they are there without effecting the game plan, but when you don't have the best, don't ruin team balance trying to have one.








 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
i was going to say yesterday that the like for like is this man, but cant see it happening
 

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