Wallabies V Boks Loftus Versfeld Pretoria 28/08/2010
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RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Oh, did we win that first one? You accept we lost at the second one, right? Then see, for the final score of the first one:
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/australian-barbarians-vs-england-live-chat/
T
TOCC
Guest
How about we focus on the game at hand, not Australia A
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
I'm sure if the converse had been true, and we belted them in the Baa-Baas, that would have been accepted as evidence that things went OK.:
Tests are the measuring stick, others are not. We have not done well enough in the Tests - the results against England were poor - that was a shit England team.
Well, if we had come out of the 4 of them 3 W - 1 L our favour, yes I would have been happier, and rightly. IMO, it's patronising to charge Aus rugby fans good money to see, allegedly, Australia A (incl Wallabies), and then somehow say, 'oh, those games have no significance'. Anytime any of our players put on an Australian jersey of any kind, they should be aiming to fulfil the best traditions of our country, and aim to win, with passion and talent and grit. In fact, apart from JO'C's dazzles in Baa Baas 1, we played poorly in both matches.
In fact, the hard truth is that those 2 Baa Baas games were, in hindsight, a measuring stick: they showed that, even at home, our so-called 2nd best XV, as coached by the Wallaby coaches, could not beat England's second best. That presaged much, as Test England just upped its intensity a bit, selected a couple of better backs, missed less tackles, and, hey presto, they beat us and played better at Sydney. As I said, we managed 1 win out of 4 matches.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The three trophies you mentioned are really the only three and maybe the Mandella Plate we care about.
In any event as I have always said winning is important but the way we play is more so. A dire horrible win (as in England on the EOYT last year) means nothing and just gave Deans and his supporters another false dawn to cling to. Those who critically examined that win saw the Ireland result and Scotland result coming.
In any event as I have always said winning is important but the way we play is more so. A dire horrible win (as in England on the EOYT last year) means nothing and just gave Deans and his supporters another false dawn to cling to. Those who critically examined that win saw the Ireland result and Scotland result coming.
Really? Who were the Nostradamuses (? Nostradami) who predicted we would lose to Scotland? Or did they see it with hindsight? I knew we were playing badly, but never for a minute thought we would lose to Scotland.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Me for one.
In fact I was pleasently surprised they played that much better aganst Wales a week later, but as Dwyer said that was another false dawn in that the Welsh defence was so very poor as opposed to a good Scotland defence the week prior.
The Irish had the best all round game of the NH we played last year and I think they would've been dirty on themslves for not winning that game. Apart from the scrum all facets of the Oz play were poor last year and that has continued this year with surprise surprise the same crew (less injuries hence why the scrum is also shit this year).
This is what irritates me so much, for two seasons we have seen the same selections essentially with the same lack of coherent game plan with the poor results not only on the score board but in the way they play the game. Apart from some individual brilliance of a couple of players the Team offers nothing in attack. There is no structure and no set piece moves so they totally rely on this individual skill/brilliance and hence we see what happens when Cooper is not there and Genia is out of form hampered by injury.
Reddy!
Bob Davidson (42)
For me, it's safe to say that I haven't enjoyed watching any Wallaby matches this season - there have been a couple of good moments with tries against the play but on the whole it hasn't been an enjoyable experience.
I'm seriously waiting for the Wallabies to play some matches consecutively where I can say, "yeh I can see where this team is going, I like it, and there is hope".
I'm seriously waiting for the Wallabies to play some matches consecutively where I can say, "yeh I can see where this team is going, I like it, and there is hope".
You may need to take a sabbatical and come back in 2012 then, Reddy!
farva
Vay Wilson (31)
Oh FFS people.
Yes we are not the best team in the world. We are third. And not far off second.
Deans has made some interesting selections certainly. But if he does not think that a player is up to test standard then why select them in the Wallaby team? I would much prefer to see a quality player played slightly out of position as opposed to someone who is not up to scratch played.
Why is everyone so negative? We beat the Boks, who are the reigning world champions, and ranked second in the world. We are going to South Africa with a very good chance of beating them over there.
In fact, i would back the Wallabies against anyone in the world except for the ABs.
And I think that without wholesale changes we will be in a position where we can beat the ABs.
Its all well and good for people to say "we should be looking to win all the time" and "we have been building for a long time" but the fact of the matter is that with the current rugby set up in Australia (which will be difficult to change given the costs of a national 3rd tier comp) and the current player numbers, we are doing bloody well producing the number of world class players we are.
After the last world cup we have lost: Vickerman, Smith, Gregan, Larkham, Latham and Mortlock. All of those players were challenging for best in the world. That is a huge loss at once, and it takes time to get a player up to standard to cover that. Only just now have the Pococks, Genias and Coopers really appeared who can play like those guys. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) might be a replacement for Mortlock, but we still havent found replacements for Vickerman and Latham.
Yes we are not the best team in the world. We are third. And not far off second.
Deans has made some interesting selections certainly. But if he does not think that a player is up to test standard then why select them in the Wallaby team? I would much prefer to see a quality player played slightly out of position as opposed to someone who is not up to scratch played.
Why is everyone so negative? We beat the Boks, who are the reigning world champions, and ranked second in the world. We are going to South Africa with a very good chance of beating them over there.
In fact, i would back the Wallabies against anyone in the world except for the ABs.
And I think that without wholesale changes we will be in a position where we can beat the ABs.
Its all well and good for people to say "we should be looking to win all the time" and "we have been building for a long time" but the fact of the matter is that with the current rugby set up in Australia (which will be difficult to change given the costs of a national 3rd tier comp) and the current player numbers, we are doing bloody well producing the number of world class players we are.
After the last world cup we have lost: Vickerman, Smith, Gregan, Larkham, Latham and Mortlock. All of those players were challenging for best in the world. That is a huge loss at once, and it takes time to get a player up to standard to cover that. Only just now have the Pococks, Genias and Coopers really appeared who can play like those guys. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) might be a replacement for Mortlock, but we still havent found replacements for Vickerman and Latham.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Farva standard revisionist excuse type stuff there. Gregan and Larkham are the only ones who left at the end of the last RWC. Vickerman was injured then and afterwards but was still on the books I believe. Mortlock is still playing, and Smith retired this year.
The Fact is as Reddy put we haven't seen any decent play from the Wallabies for two year. Win or lose the standard of their play has been getting worse.
I do not care where on the world ranks the Wallabies are. I do not accept that there are not options to the players that Deans has continually selected over the last two years regardless of their performances or form. I do not accept that we as fans and stake holders in Australian Rugby have to accept the crap "play what is in front of you" rubbish that Deans has served up. I am sick of it.
I am sick of players selected out of position, non performing players continually selected, no discernible game plan and the continual Deans speak excuses from officials. Given how competitive Australian Sport is we cannot afford to have this mediocrity continue.
If the Wallabies lose and play as badly as they have in EVERY game this year and most of last year who will be held accountable. Is it just the injured players who were in fact playing last year when they played the same? Sooner or later JON will have to say enough is enough. I hope to see major changes before the EOYT. I don't give a shit about the RWC I care about the next game and I want to see decent Rugby that Australia used to play. Play that and the wins will come and so will the crowds.
The Fact is as Reddy put we haven't seen any decent play from the Wallabies for two year. Win or lose the standard of their play has been getting worse.
I do not care where on the world ranks the Wallabies are. I do not accept that there are not options to the players that Deans has continually selected over the last two years regardless of their performances or form. I do not accept that we as fans and stake holders in Australian Rugby have to accept the crap "play what is in front of you" rubbish that Deans has served up. I am sick of it.
I am sick of players selected out of position, non performing players continually selected, no discernible game plan and the continual Deans speak excuses from officials. Given how competitive Australian Sport is we cannot afford to have this mediocrity continue.
If the Wallabies lose and play as badly as they have in EVERY game this year and most of last year who will be held accountable. Is it just the injured players who were in fact playing last year when they played the same? Sooner or later JON will have to say enough is enough. I hope to see major changes before the EOYT. I don't give a shit about the RWC I care about the next game and I want to see decent Rugby that Australia used to play. Play that and the wins will come and so will the crowds.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I think it's more about how we are playing at the moment than the results. If we were playing ugly footy and still winning, that would be one thing, but we're not even doing that. The nadir for me was the loss to Scotland. With the best will in the world and with the greatest respect, Scotland are a struggling side right now. On paper we should beat them 99 times out of 100, but somehow we managed not to win that game.
If we were showing some adventure and getting done, I could at least say "well we threw everything at the AB's and came up short for now, but at least the way forward is clear". I'm not getting that sense at the moment. It's not all doom and gloom though. If somehow the boys pinch one in the Republic and at least one of the remaining two Bleddie games, I'll feel like we're getting somewhere.
If we were showing some adventure and getting done, I could at least say "well we threw everything at the AB's and came up short for now, but at least the way forward is clear". I'm not getting that sense at the moment. It's not all doom and gloom though. If somehow the boys pinch one in the Republic and at least one of the remaining two Bleddie games, I'll feel like we're getting somewhere.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I didn't think much of Connolly but at least he made changes when players weren't performing...
I can't fathom Deans thinking: why do certain players get continually selected when they play badly week after week?
And don't tell me that there aren't other options because there are other options to the likes of Brown and O'Connor...
Also, Australia's skills level is probably at its worst... and Deans choosing to axe Muggleton and appoint himself defence coach was another failure.
I can't fathom Deans thinking: why do certain players get continually selected when they play badly week after week?
And don't tell me that there aren't other options because there are other options to the likes of Brown and O'Connor...
Also, Australia's skills level is probably at its worst... and Deans choosing to axe Muggleton and appoint himself defence coach was another failure.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I agree slim regarding skill level with ball in hand.
Howvere on the termination of Muggo I agreed with it then and now because Muggo's defensive line whilst impervious to all but the best attack (read ABs) totally limited any counter attack. The defensive alignment didn't allow for support of a turn over from in depth runners. Many of our issues date back to Macqueen's time as head coach and because of his success (and as the only fresh think in Oz Rugby since Dwyer) all other coaches followed his lead. This was further re-inforced when Jones followed the Macqueen blueprint at both the Brumbies and Wallabies and Link who was part of Macqueens coaching set up did the same at NSW. That's two thirds of our playing strength all being taught the same patterns which had basically stopped working as the game had moved on.
Fast forward to now and we don't have any passing skills (as the Macqueen game didn't require them except from Larkham and Gregan) or kicking skills (again except from a noteable few) or counter ruck skills etc etc etc. The problems reach right back to 2002 and with the loss of key players from that era the plan has got worse and worse. In comes Deans with good ideas but like a Labour government's insulation scheme he forgot to do the little things like up skilling the workforce to implement the ideas. It is Deans fault because he IS the coach. It is his responsibilty to ensure that the players are trained in skills (that admittedly they should already have, if they don't they shouldn't be there in the first place and who picked them?) Secondly the Deans defensive system does work pretty well and if the Wallabies actually played well with the ball in hand they would win games. The problem isn't defence it is the poor attack, and worse skills.
#1 Tah
Chilla Wilson (44)
Ok, so Aussie management hired a kiwi coach. He has 3 Fullbacks playing, 1 winger, 3 blindsides (one of which is the captain), no reserve lock, or outside back. I have my rugby final at 10:30am on Sunday morning, is it worth getting up to see another spectacle of "playing what's in front of you?"
I have no rugby final to play, but I am pretty sure I will be sleeping and watching the IQ2 recording. But I am older, you youngsters don't need sleep. Usually when I do that, the Wallabies win.
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