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Wallabies V Boks Loftus Versfeld Pretoria 28/08/2010

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fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Then we had the madness of bringing TPN - known to have foot and ankle issues - back on a second time in Baa Baas 2, and he reported that these conditions had been badly aggravated in so doing (in fact I think he limped off).

RedsHappy

Can we clear this crap about TPN up?

Nau was diagnosed with injuries that would put him out for the season towards the end of the S14.

The Tahs doctor & Nau agreed to try some cortisone shots.

If it worked he would have been OK.

It didn't work, as was found out in the Aus A game.

So he had to have the operations

Because of the cortisone shots he had to wait for the cortisone to clear from his system before they could operate anyway.

He played wounded while it cleared knowing he could not get the injuries much worse, as a prop reserve for Aus A (because that is the way he is) and for the two blues pretty well on one leg towards the end.

OK?
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
DPK, yep and we all love it when someone plays through injury. But when it all goes pear-shaped, us armchair critics get to complain about it. ;)
 

#1 Tah

Chilla Wilson (44)
RedsHappy

Can we clear this crap about TPN up?

Nau was diagnosed with injuries that would put him out for the season towards the end of the S14.

The Tahs doctor & Nau agreed to try some cortisone shots.

If it worked he would have been OK.

It didn't work, as was found out in the Aus A game.

So he had to have the operations

Because of the cortisone shots he had to wait for the cortisone to clear from his system before they could operate anyway.

He played wounded while it cleared knowing he could not get the injuries much worse, as a prop reserve for Aus A (because that is the way he is) and for the two blues pretty well on one leg towards the end.

OK?

You forgot the part that the bloke is a fucking legend.
 

jason

Sydney Middleton (9)
Yes!

I keep posting it, but it's just you and me, Jase. He has a limp. I think it's his right knee, but it's hard to tell. He seems to have had it since Ireland. And he was out with a knee injury for ages after Ireland, wasn't he?

You can tell that he can't hit the line, or rucks, or anything, with full force.

Thank you! Didn't mean to steal your thunder if you've been posting it before. Maybe a break on the EOYT would do him some good, could give McCalman/Higgers/Hodgson a bit more game time and get him right for next year. I'm a huge fan of Rocky and was in denial about it for ages, but the Wallabies really need him back at his best.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
RedsHappy

Can we clear this crap about TPN up?

Nau was diagnosed with injuries that would put him out for the season towards the end of the S14.

The Tahs doctor & Nau agreed to try some cortisone shots.

If it worked he would have been OK.

It didn't work, as was found out in the Aus A game.

So he had to have the operations

Because of the cortisone shots he had to wait for the cortisone to clear from his system before they could operate anyway.

He played wounded while it cleared knowing he could not get the injuries much worse, as a prop reserve for Aus A (because that is the way he is) and for the two blues pretty well on one leg towards the end.

OK?


Ah, now I understand - it is the players who decide when they will come on from the bench and in what position. So it was because they didn't fancy a game that Moore, Burgess et al didn't get on.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Ah, now I understand - it is the players who decide when they will come on from the bench and in what position. So it was because they didn't fancy a game that Moore, Burgess et al didn't get on.

They needed a prop to stop going to golden oldie scrums, Nau said he would have a go on in the Aus A game vs England at prop after playing hooker because he and his doctors believed that his ankle couldn't get any worse ................
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
TPN is a gutsy guy, no question about that. My issue is that it should not be the players who decide on substitutions - sometimes they need to be protected, even from themselves.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
RedsHappy Can we clear this crap about TPN up? Nau was diagnosed with injuries that would put him out for the season towards the end of the S14. The Tahs doctor & Nau agreed to try some cortisone shots.If it worked he would have been OK. It didn't work, as was found out in the Aus A game. So he had to have the operations. Because of the cortisone shots he had to wait for the cortisone to clear from his system before they could operate anyway. He played wounded while it cleared knowing he could not get the injuries much worse, as a prop reserve for Aus A (because that is the way he is) and for the two blues pretty well on one leg towards the end. OK?

Awh gee, sorry FP, for posting 'crap' mate, your posts are always outstanding and correct in very detail, and you know best.

Whatever, your post above changes nothing of my assessment, so no, it's not 'OK'. First, there was open, undenied speculation by the Wallaby coaches and others in April and May (pre Baa Baas games) that TPN would likely be included in the Wallabies squad - if this was not the case, what on earth was he doing in the Baa Baas? Second, cortisone, as an active steroid, is typically administered only temporarily to reduce painful and inhibitory inflammation (and btw there are some doctors who hate it for sports injuries believing it can directly cause cartilage damage). The foot and ankle injuries (or bone spurs or whatever) must have been reasonably serious for cortisone to be considered. These were also games we were meant to win right, so what on earth are we doing using a top, key player TPN with known injuries, twice in the same game, when there clearly is some risk of aggravation and further damage (and pain relievers are problematic in these situations as they can induce further excessive use of the injured joint as the pain is artificially suppressed, etc). My point is that all these risks to TPN's foot and maybe later recovery time (and btw potentially the game's outcome!) should have forced, not the Tahs' doctors, but the Wallaby ones, to simply say 'no play, it's not worth further aggravation and risking a more serious outcome or longer recovery times.' And that further aggravation obviously did occur in some form or another, as he was not limping when we first went on, but was when he came off the second time.

And now to give you some credit: it was you who weeks back noted that Hynes appeared to have some form of injury as you observed him in those Baa Baas games. That was of course correct, and we now have Hynes admitting that 'I came back from knee injury too quickly and didn't recover properly'. And that's precisely why he's not in RSA right now. He should never have been playing in early June, clearly, and it's the job of the Wallabies' doctors to be the unpopular enforcers in such contexts. 'Playing brave and for passion with injuries' may be OK at club level, but it's not OK when it materially can reduce the depth of resource available for a national team whose best 2010 excuses are 'injuries and lack of depth in Australian rugby'.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5y5f9-v1ao&feature=player_embedded

Back to the game, this was (IMO) the most important part of the game. Tim Horan said it right when he said "the game was there for the taking"; this is when the game was on a platter for the Wallabies.

Setting aside the fact that the game probably lost in these few minutes, this is also IMO the point where the Wallabies showed the most potential. They started on their own goal line, and got the turnover. Then they used the creative spark of the backs to weave up the field, and Elsom provided some go forward, Brown played a midfield linking role and Genia was dishing out pretty quick service.

Then they stopped for a rest; but importantly, where they earlier in the year would have completely lost momentum here, they didn't. Genia got the ball quickly and dished it to the forwards who made it over the advantage line (a first!). Crucially, he got the ball quickly again and rebuilt that momentum.

There were moments where I expected the Wallabies to slip into old disasters; for bit in the video, they are going left and right across the field similar to vs Scotland EOYT09, but then they continued to make progress forward. In the little pit stop they made on the Bok 22, I sat back in disgust, ready to watch them go to one out runners and butcher some great play. But they didn't.

Camped on the opposition 5 metre line, they swung it wide: AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) may have had a loose carry, or Hougaard may have hit him perfectly, but IMO that was the 1 time out of 5 that that situation would not result in a try.

Giteau was also good in this clip. He is crabbing a little, but in this situation it was beneficial to the play. His passes were cracking, too.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
It deserved better, didn't it. That was proper 15 man footy and they were doing all the things we've been asking of them. I just wonder whether AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) could have done a little in and away on Hougaard, but that would be wise after the event. It was worth a try and in future games that kind of thing will be rewarded.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I posted this somewhere else yesterday, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) bombed that try, but when you are the attacking winger on the right wing, you hold the ball int the right hand, not the left hand.. He was unable to fend against Hougaard and coincidentally when Hougaard hit him his shoulder was able to dislodge the ball, this would not have been the case if he were holding it in the right hand..

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has since acknowledged that he messed up here, so thats comforting, but sheesh its frustrating to watch.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
I agree with TOCC, and I also recall being taught to carry the ball with the points paralel to your forearm- that is, one end near your hand and the other close to your elbow. That way it's harder for the opposition to get a grip on the ball to rip it away, but its also less likely that they will hit one end with their shoulder and pop the ball out.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Or use two hands. I was always taught to carry the ball in both hands where practical, as it confuses the defence about what your next move is about to be. It also reduces the chances of it being dislodged in the tackle.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
well yeah, but when you are 5min from the try line with 1 defender to bear i think there is really only one thing you are going to try and do
 
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Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
Hougaard wrapped him up well about 5m from the line so even if the ball was not dislodged he would not have scored.
He may have been able to pop it up(unlikely) or recycle though.

It was an excellent tackle under immense pressure.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Or use two hands. I was always taught to carry the ball in both hands where practical, as it confuses the defence about what your next move is about to be. It also reduces the chances of it being dislodged in the tackle.
Basic stuff. Cant pass with one hand.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Hougaard wrapped him up well about 5m from the line so even if the ball was not dislodged he would not have scored.
He may have been able to pop it up(unlikely) or recycle though.

It was an excellent tackle under immense pressure.

I think that's the important thing: he would have had options. I feel for him though, had he gone over there the game probably would have been ours.

And I agree, let's not diminish that tackle, it was perfect.
 
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