Wallabies v Argentina Sat 2 October CBus Stadium

[The_Brown_Hornet]

This. I'm not at all wedded to Petaia in Gold, but god some of the shite that has been voiced here recently is beyond the pale.

Agreed. The pile on after the weekend's game I thought was pretty ordinary. He didn't play badly at all. Granted, not at MK's standard, but at worst solid. The big thing will be choosing when to offload and when to hold. I'd also like to see him stay closer to his support at times too.

 

[dru]

For me even two genuine targets is too easy to defend. You either need 3 genuines and a change up, or 2 genuines and 2 that are more than half-decent.

However, on the flip side I will concede that a forward park with all of Arnold, Skelton & Valetini wouldn’t struggle for physical presence.

I can only agree, TSR. And "silly dick" line out throws don't make up for a jumper, let alone several.

 

[tragic]

8

With due respect Reg and his disrespectful retort to my earlier post, I have an inkling that KP used the Ikitau story and attributed it to Petaia. That was the oblique point I was making.

Their pathways were much the same.
Except that Ikitau went to Brisbane Boys college and Petaia Brisbane State High.
Both played league as juniors and received rugby scholarships for their senior schooling.

 

[cyclopath]

Flanker, missing the problem a bit I think. If we take Skelton into the line out (and Hooper is a lock at 7) our problem is not trying to find 3 or 4 tall timber jumpers. It is trying to find more than 1.

You could get away with it. I jumping lock, Skelton as a change-up, a 6 like Swinton for example (or LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)), and maybe an 8 who jumps. Mixing it up, trying some short line outs and sneaky front ones it could work but I'm not saying it's ideal.
The other benefit of Skelton is as a maul-wrecker. Obviously, Swain pretty good at this too. Maul defence is a critical skill these days.
I'm interested to see what Skelton might bring compared to what we knew from years ago, but I'm a little on the fence too. Gotta get a good balance.
*Edit* - I also doubt Rennie would be looking at him without some thought as to how he might work. He seems to be a thinker.

 

[Derpus]

If you've got Swinton at 6 and Samu coming on at 8 at the same time as Skelton off the bench you are covered and you have some excellent impact.

Not sure Swinton has 80 minutes in him though.

 

[cyclopath]

If you've got Swinton at 6 and Samu coming on at 8 at the same time as Skelton off the bench you are covered and you have some excellent impact.

Not sure Swinton has 80 minutes in him though.

Cynics would say he counts on at least a 10 minute break (apart from half-time).

 

[dru]

You could get away with it.

On the back of wholesale reconsideration of our kicking game. And on the basis that the opposition doesn't see it and reinvigorate their kicking game.

All in all it would be pretty foolish.

 

[cyclopath]

On the back of wholesale reconsideration of our kicking game. And on the basis that the opposition doesn't see it and reinvigorate their kicking game.

All in all it would be pretty foolish.

I'm going to defer to Rennie on this and wait and see.

 

[dru]

I'm going to defer to Rennie on this and wait and see.

I'm with you there, though you started with a presumption that Rennie could cope with a single jumper. It's nonsense, IMO. But yep, let's see where Rennie takes it, and yes I have enough confidence in the guy that even if he did seem to book in with a single jumper, I'd support it. With raised eyebrows.

 

[cyclopath]

I'm with you there, though you started with a presumption that Rennie could cope with a single jumper. It's nonsense, IMO. But yep, let's see where Rennie takes it, and yes I have enough confidence in the guy that even if he did seem to book in with a single jumper, I'd support it. With raised eyebrows.

No, that's not what I wrote. You created the "1 recognised lock = 1 jumper" paradigm which, with all respect, is more of a nonsense. Skelton doesn't prevent other players being selected who can jump - full time or part time, and we already have them. The option I presented seems the more logical scenario if someone like Skelton was tried. 1 jumping lock, and others.
As I said, I doubt Rennie and co would be looking at him if he presented an unworkable situation, particularly as he seems to think pretty carefully about his forward make-up vis-a-vis the lineout.
All in all, I think Arnold is the bigger picture.

 

[dru]

No, that's not what I wrote. You created the "1 recognised lock = 1 jumper" paradigm which, with all respect, is more of a nonsense. Skelton doesn't prevent other players being selected who can jump - full time or part time, and we already have them. The option I presented seems the more logical scenario if someone like Skelton was tried. 1 jumping lock, and others.
As I said, I doubt Rennie and co would be looking at him if he presented an unworkable situation, particularly as he seems to think pretty carefully about his forward make-up vis-a-vis the lineout.
All in all, I think Arnold is the bigger picture.

I did no such thing. What I said was:

Flanker, missing the problem a bit I think. If we take Skelton into the line out (and Hooper is a lock at 7) our problem is not trying to find 3 or 4 tall timber jumpers. It is trying to find more than 1.

Our issue is a combination of a non-jumping lock, and a guaranteed non-jumping 7. So we then must look to 6 and 8. Which has ramifications. But whatever. I have no problem with either Skelton or Arnold. I do have an issue if we don't treat the line out with respect.

 

[cyclopath]

It is trying to find more than 1.

I think this might have been the bit to which I responded, hence...

you started with a presumption that Rennie could cope with a single jumper.

No, I did not say "cope", just pointed out how you work around it. Which is why I said "You could get away with it". I also mentioned balance. As did you.
So we kind of agree!

 

[upthereds#!]

For me even two genuine targets is too easy to defend. You either need 3 genuines and a change up, or 2 genuines and 2 that are more than half-decent.

However, on the flip side I will concede that a forward park with all of Arnold, Skelton & Valetini wouldn’t struggle for physical presence.

Swinton is a genuine target and Valetini has been used as a jumper. So thats 2 genuine and 2 backup. Not that bad.

 

[barbarian]

What about McMahon? In a post Giteau-law world, he could be the answer at 6. Jumps in the lineout too (took at least one on Saturday).

Can't wait to see him given a longer run on the NH tour.

 

[Lyall]

In regards to what/how many jumpers we select - how important is it to attacking and/or defending the oppositions lineout as well?

 

[TSR]

The more threats the harder it is to defend. Also, the easier it is to push the ball to areas where it is less useful.

Back ball is the optimum because it makes it much easier for backline attack which is generally much harder to get going off front ball.

If defence only has to worry about one target at the back it’s much easier to disrupt and pick off.

On the flip side, if we only have two good jumpers it’s normally much easier for them to just throw where we aren’t defending.

 

[formerflanker]

Not having followed Skelton's playing career recently, I have to ask is he still a non-jumping lock?
He's only about 135kgs and two strong men could lift him - I think!

 

[Derpus]

Not having followed Skelton's playing career recently, I have to ask is he still a non-jumping lock?
He's only about 135kgs and two strong men could lift him - I think!

Hes' improved but apparently he averages just less than 1 line-out take per game. So it's not like he's a primary option.

 

[SteveWA]

I thought JP did OK. Sure, his decision making at times was reminiscent of Cooper in his younger days but at least he put himself in a position to be able to throw/not throw those passes.

 

[cyclopath]

Hes' improved but apparently he averages just less than 1 line-out take per game. So it's not like he's a primary option.

Yet his team did very well with him and apparently he was a large part of that. In rugby which is generally very forward and set-piece oriented. He's probably not as much of a liability and some seem to think. Anyway, maybe we'll see. Arnold is pretty enticing as a prospect on the tour.