Wallabies v Argentina @ CommBank Stadium 7.45pm Sat 15/07

[rugbyAU]

Good team but Uelese shouldn’t be there!

 

[Dctarget]

Skelton is nullified by Eddie's low possession plan. La Rochelle hold onto the ball forever, letting Skelton grind down the opposition. Hopefully with Kerevi in the team as well, Eddie will be tempted to let us go through the phases.

 

[molman]

But I don’t think BRs concerns are without substance.

It's easy to have concerns, but I really don't look at the selection for this team and think there are clear and obvious players who'd you be slotting in instead. I'm still unsure who @Brumby Runner would be expecting Eddie to be picking instead and I'd argue most options would be open to an equal level of debate.

I'm also of the opinion that the coaching group is always going to have infinitely more insight to the reality of where these players are at both in terms of fitness, mentally, time with the team in training etc.. and that contextually even if we knew all the facts we may still disagree with the decision but it's doubtful that any coach isn't making choices with clear considerations and rationale at this level. Even ones that appear to baffle such as Suli (or maybe Ueleses). These could range from trialing combinations, testing out players at this level (and for their potential placement in the RWC squad), giving players necessary time after injuries or those who've had less time with the other players, resting some individuals and rotating in others, specific selections with regards to attributes of the opposition..etc.etc. With limited games before the RWC and even the Bledisloe Cup games, these first two games were always going to likely involve a little experimentation.

Now, where I personally have concerns is less around this collection of players, but rather with the coaching and resulting execution of a game plan that both lends itself to the strengths of this playing group and the achievement of a positive outcome. I also have concerns around what I saw with regards to defense and the hard to decode intent of the system in place (or players failure to excute if it was such).

 

[Tomthumb]

At the risk of re-igniting an argument that has surely taken place (but i have missed), am I the only one that after seeing Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase)'s performance in the EOYT, could never conceive of a situation in which Vunivulu was selected over him, absent Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) subsequently failing repeatedly in tests? I've no strong view on Jones either way but when i saw that prior to the SA test, I did wonder if he'd been watching the same rugby I was..

It’s Eddie’s obsession with Rugby League players

 

[qwerty51]

I really wish all teams would adopt the Waratahs habit of releasing injury news about all the players not selected each week, injury and expected week back etc.

 

[Tomthumb]

It's easy to have concerns, but I really don't look at the selection for this team and think there are clear and obvious players who'd you be slotting in instead. I'm still unsure who @Brumby Runner would be expecting Eddie to be picking instead and I'd argue most options would be open to an equal level of debate.

I'm also of the opinion that the coaching group is always going to have infinitely more insight to the reality of where these players are at both in terms of fitness, mentally, time with the team in training etc.. and that contextually even if we knew all the facts we may still disagree with the decision but it's doubtful that any coach isn't making choices with clear considerations and rationale at this level. Even ones that appear to baffle such as Suli (or maybe Ueleses). These could range from trialing combinations, testing out players at this level (and for their potential placement in the RWC squad), giving players necessary time after injuries or those who've had less time with the other players, resting some individuals and rotating in others, specific selections with regards to attributes of the opposition..etc.etc. With limited games before the RWC and even the Bledisloe Cup games, these first two games were always going to likely involve a little experimentation.

Now, where I personally have concerns is less around this collection of players, but rather with the coaching and resulting execution of a game plan that both lends itself to the strengths of this playing group and the achievement of a positive outcome. I also have concerns around what I saw with regards to defense and the hard to decode intent of the system in place (or players failure to excute if it was such).

Coaching and selecting are two very different skills, and most coaches don’t have both

 

[KOB1987]

Coaching and selecting are two very different skills, and most coaches don’t have both

Most have better access to information than people on the internet though, right?

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

I really wish all teams would adopt the Waratahs habit of releasing injury news about all the players not selected each week, injury and expected week back etc.

They can even use it to make money like teams do.

“The Wallabies Elastoplast injury update- brought to you by elastoplast”

Adds an easy sponser and visibility to the injured while earning them more money to rehab injured players.

 

[GTPIH]

From the presser with Slipper & Eddie:

- On why he keeps picking Uelese
"he's a good strong scrummaging hooker, good defensive player, he's got the capacity to carry well, and obviously there's a bit to his game that he's got to improve but we feel that him & Porecki can give us a really good 80 minutes".

- Petaia trained for the first time yesterday, further off than I realised.

- Confirms that Quade will kick.

For what it's worth, I was at the Wallaby First members function this evening and during the Q&A with Turuini, Mitchell and Whittaker they were asked if any of current squad wouldn't make it to France. Mitchell and Whittacker passed but Turuini said Uelese as you need a guy that can throw straight. Also, having all played under Eddie Mk1, they said he has mellowed and changed his approach to coaching to cater for today's generation

 

[Marce]

Who's going to Parramatta? 15k attendance could be good at this point?

 

[Brumby Runner]

There are 22 of them there by my count. I think because of your no confidence in Jones you are always going to find criticism in his selections, like you always did with Cheika. As we are all fully aware Aus rugby is a bit up the shit at the moment so it's a bit of a balancing act to make selections that are not necessarily either right or wrong, as we don't have any world class players - even the ones who are the closest to that you don't rate! Anyway, as TSR points out some of your concerns are valid, but I try to find reasoning in the selections and take a glass half full approach.

KOB, it's good to be optimistic, but don't get your hopes up too high is my message. There are still many questions to be asked of this side, and while I agree that Aus rugby is a bit up to shit right now, if Eddie thinks we can win by playing without the ball he has rocks in his head. So, first thing is for him to drop that stupid approach and let the players he has selected do their best in an environment that will allow it.

My issues with some selections are, eg, with some queries about Angus Bell's match fitness and Slipper's apparent tired workrate start the game with Bell and use him for as long as possible before bringing Slipper into the fray. Similar with Porecki/Uelese - start with the injury prone player if he must be there and finish with the more durable. But I really wouldn't have Uelese there at all in preference to Lonergan, Fainga'a, Faessler etc. Also, Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) has had some very weak defensive efforts during 2023 Super Rugby, way down on his form last year. If fit, I would prefer either Kellaway (who admittedly has also had some defensive issues this year but most won't concede that) or Jordan Petaia (neither Brumbies, I might add). Otherwise, Arnold, Skelton and McReight are all trying to establish themselves in the test side. I hope they go well for the good of the Wallabies, but they could all quite easily be found to be wanting.

 

[Brumby Runner]

This isn't reflected in the statistics though. Leading the tackle count according to espn. It wasn't his side of the scrum that was struggling either.

Interesting that. Frost packs behind Slipper and Skelton behind Ala'alatoa. Maybe the wrong lock has been left out?

 

[dru]

Interesting that. Frost packs behind Slipper and Skelton behind Ala'alatoa. Maybe the wrong lock has been left out?

I’m hoping it is more rotational. I thought Frost more active than Skelton.

if Eddie thinks we can win by playing without the ball he has rocks in his head.

Why on earth continue with this inaccurate comical characterisation? Wanting a kicking game and wanting to play territory is a foundation of international rugby. Now, doing it well and implementing a plan to regain possession - well there are issues.


I’m with you on the hooker selection, we are roughly aligned around Skelton, I’ll hold judgement on Slipper but initially I’m not minded to agree. I’m also happy to see Nawaqanitawase on board, including his D capability - though yes let’s see it proven.

there is plenty to discuss without poor mischaracterisation of the game plan intent.

 

[Dctarget]

Happy that Bruni has been dropped to the bench, he was a stand out last weekend.

 

[Merrow]

Who's going to Parramatta? 15k attendance could be good at this point?

Me and the fam

 

[Sword of Justice]

Interesting that. Frost packs behind Slipper and Skelton behind Ala'alatoa. Maybe the wrong lock has been left out?

I think it would have to do with their opposition. Kitshoff is in my opinion a significantly more accomplished player than Malherbe. My point was only that I thought Slipper did not have a relatively bad day but rather looked to me to be a steadying and high workrate influence on the team.

Power didn't seem to be the issue on the weekend, at least for the starting packs, rather it was that of a technical nature.

 

[Dctarget]

If we get through with no injuries in the backs (big if with Kerevi & Cooper), who do we expect Kemeny and Leota to replace? Leota replaces Holloway at 6 and Kemeny to 7? Bit odd. Fraser is generally a 80' player. Maybe Kemeny to 6 and Leota to 8 with Bobby V having remit to empty the tank by the 60th.

 

[Highlander35]

If we get through with no injuries in the backs (big if with Kerevi & Cooper), who do we expect Kemeny and Leota to replace? Leota replaces Holloway at 6 and Kemeny to 7? Bit odd. Fraser is generally a 80' player. Maybe Kemeny to 6 and Leota to 8 with Bobby V having remit to empty the tank by the 60th.

Valetini is the only forward who played 80 minutes last week in the team, and M Hooper is the only other one who would have been if fitness permitted.

Makes me think that Leota->Valetini and Kemeny -> Hooper were the planned subs, McReight coming in may mean that Josh has to wait to minute 70 rather than 55-60 to ensure that he's coming on "for the right position".

 

[Dctarget]

Valetini is the only forward who played 80 minutes last week in the team, and M Hooper is the only other one who would have been if fitness permitted.

Makes me think that Leota->Valetini and Kemeny -> Hooper were the planned subs, McReight coming in may mean that Josh has to wait to minute 70 rather than 55-60 to ensure that he's coming on "for the right position".

Hooper also played 80 minutes no?

 

[Tomthumb]

Most have better access to information than people on the internet though, right?

There isn’t a statistic in the world that would say Uelese or Vunivalu should have played last week. Acting as if these coaches aren’t human and don’t have their own bias when selecting is silly