Wallabies v All Blacks @ Suncorp - 18/10/14

[BDA]

We have some good players, but nothing like the depth that the game does in NZ.

I agree that depth is part of the problem. technically depth should be more of a problem for us at Super level than it is at Test level. We have always punched above our weight at test level because whilst our national depth is very poor, our best 15 - 20 guys generally put us in the top 4 in the world. In recent years we've shown stronger depth at Super Rugby level (highlighted by having two top quality teams in the semi finals this season) yet we haven't reached any great heights at test level.

It doesn't help that we have a lot of top quality talents out injured and due to our lack of depth those injuries definitely affect us worse than other countries.

Still, the All Blacks' strong team culture means they could bring in any player and they would shine in the jersey. We need to create a similar culture

 

[Train Without a Station]

@chasmac, the problem is that the public see whatever style was used by the most successful Super Rugby team that year, and the most prominent players of that year as the absolute be all and end all.

Us Reds fans were guilty of it. Then it was the Brumbies. Now it's the Waratahs.

All along I can't help but think the McKenzie pragmatic approach is the best approach. Pick the best style that suits the players at your disposal and then select the players to best implement that.

 

[chasmac]

@chasmac, the problem is that the public see whatever style was used by the most successful Super Rugby team that year, and the most prominent players of that year as the absolute be all and end all.

Us Reds fans were guilty of it. Then it was the Brumbies. Now it's the Waratahs.

All along I can't help but think the McKenzie pragmatic approach is the best approach. Pick the best style that suits the players at your disposal and then select the players to best implement that.

I agree.
I think EM has a plan and a design and I think he knows where he wants the team to get to.
However, the plan seems to lack some detail in some areas.
It might be good enough to get us to 3-4th in the world. It does seem to be lacking the last 5-10% that is needed to get us to the top.
Can the extra 5 - 10% to be found by revamping one of the following?

1. management ( kicking coach, forwards coach, psychologist, team manager )
2. Player selection / selectors.
3. Style of play / Gameplan / game management.
4. Skills of players
5. Depth of players (NRC).
6. Centralised contracting.
7. Sabbaticals
8. Selecting overseas players.
9. No dickheads policy
10. No dickheads on forums policy.
11. ......... I've been told to leave so there will be no #11 from me.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I was more going from the angle that if the conversion from the sideline is to achieve a three point win, the result of the kick isn't very important.

For the record, with a bit of practice I could probably get to 50% from directly in front.

It could take me years of practice to hit one from the sideline!

Any relation to Dennis Moore then @Braveheart81? He claims to be fairly accurate.

 

[Train Without a Station]

@Chasmc an approach that prioritizes the Wallabies succes is what's needed the most.

That includes co-operation from provincial coaches. Larkham saying that they essentially didn't care about the Wallabies, they would play Leali'ifano and To'omua where they want to is the perfect example of this.

It's hard going head to head with other nations. Even harder when you're going head to head with your own country a lot of the time too.

McKenzie also has something to answer for regarding this during his time at the Reds, but also remember Cooper was told he needed to improve certain aspects and perform certain duties in games in order to be selected. Suddenly Cooper was defending in the line, working on his physicality, etc.

 

[Pfitzy]

QLD state of origin team is an organisation which operates a bit like the allblacks.

The All Blacks are selecting NSW players????

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The All Blacks are selecting NSW players????

Steve Devine.

 

[Scoey]

This has got to be up there with some of the wierdest match threads of all time. 35 pages and I reckon a sum total of about 6 posts on the actual game.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Are you saying we're getting a little off-topic Scoey? Surely not!

 

[Upthenuts]

i hope the abs pride in not loosing two in a row exceeds the wallabies pride in fronting up. after a difficult week.
for however angry and physical the wallabies play, as a kiwi i always expect the abs to be more hungry, angry and physical.

 

[Slim 293]

Injury concern for Barrett...

http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/beauden-barrett-limps-out-of-training-2014101709#ixzz3GN2FOePM

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There are a lot of folk on here who seem to have adopted the Oom PaarlBok (c) tipping methodology.
His copyrighted tipping method is Bokke (or saffer Super Rugby franchise) to lose by 50 points.

Those adopting this methodology need to be aware of the PaarlBok obfuscation coefficient of 40 points.

How it works: A tip to lose by 50 points ("The Bokke are an uncoachable rabble, with players out of position, and the wrong players selected etc") means Bokke to lose by 10 in a fairly close match. A tip to lose by 35 points actually represents a tipped victory for Bokke by 5 points.

So those of you on here claiming Wobs are rabble with the Coach having lost the changing sheds, and playing 2nd choice players due to injury and therefore The Darkness will put 30 points on us are actually predicting a 10 point victory for the Men In Gold under the Oom PaarlBok methodology.

Me ? No tips, just hope. 1 point victory to the Wobs is all we need. Any more is wasted effort.

 

[Braveheart81]

Adam Ashley-Cooper getting ready to bring up his ton!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

He's in the wrong uniform. Do we need any more clear evidence that the team is divided, with poor communication, and a lack of respect for Management and team protocols? Expect to hear about this debacle in the Fairfax Media. Some of the players seem to support AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Link is ignoring the disruption. His staff seem to be troubled by it. The Captain is ignoring the behaviour. The rest of the playing group do not seem to be unified in their reaction to this belligerent behaviour by this very experienced member of the team.

Rumours of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) not only leaving the Wobs after RWC, but is he also signalling a possible change of code.

We are stuffed.

Edit: What's more, the stadium is empty. No one has turned up. I can see the headline now: "Pulver's worst fears realised in ARU Cash flow crisis. Revenue plummets as Wallabies fail to attract any spectators to empty Suncorp Stadium."

 

[Moono75]

I always know the Wallabies are in trouble when there are player comments in the newspaper about coming out and having a real crack......doing it for the coach. It's never been backed up with results in the past and I can't see with the current turmoil that it will be any different tomorrow.

Hope they have a crack to mark AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s 100th. Well played two dads!

 

[ACT Crusader]

That's a load of shit. It's closer to our 3rd XV facing their 1st XV right now.

Take out New Zealand's first 2 number 8's, first 4 hookers, their 2nd choice props, one of their top 2 7's, their top 10, their top 9, their top 12, and a couple of wingers and let me know how they're going.

New Zealand rugby has excellent depth in a couple of key positions such as 10, where we also lack depth.

At the same time we have 4 international quality 7s in Australia at least. We also have great depth at hooker.

The All Blacks play to their potential much better than the Wallabies do though.

I'll play along purely for fun (and nothing else):

1. Crockett
2. Harris (Coles and Mealamu out)
3. O. Franks
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Luatua
7. Cane (McCaw out)
8. Messam (Read and Kaino out)

9. TKB (A. Smith out)
10. Cruden/Barrett (Carter out)
11. Savea
12. Fekitoa (Nonu out)
13. C. Smith
14. Piutau (B. Smith and Jane out)
15. Dagg

16. Hames
17. Moody (Woodcock out)
18. Faumauina (B. franks out)
19. Thrush/Tuipoluto
20. Todd
21. TJP
22. Cruden/Barrett
23. Crotty

 

[BDA]

Hugh Jarse, you should write for Fairfax. though surely you could find more ways to drag more people through the mud with a juicy story like this

 

[Quick Hands]

I always know the Wallabies are in trouble when there are player comments in the newspaper about coming out and having a real crack..doing it for the coach. It's never been backed up with results in the past and I can't see with the current turmoil that it will be any different tomorrow.

Hope they have a crack to mark AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s 100th. Well played two dads!

I hope the Brisbane rugby public turn out in their usual numbers. The Wallabies traditionally get a good crowd there and we especially need one tomorrow night.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'll play along purely for fun (and nothing else):

1. Crockett
2. Harris (Coles and Mealamu out)
3. O. Franks
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Luatua
7. Cane (McCaw out)
8. Messam (Read and Kaino out)

9. TKB (A. Smith out)
10. Cruden/Barrett (Carter out)
11. Savea
12. Fekitoa (Nonu out)
13. C. Smith
14. Piutau (B. Smith and Jane out)
15. Dagg

16. Hames
17. Moody (Woodcock out)
18. Faumauina (B. franks out)
19. Thrush/Tuipoluto
20. Todd
21. TJP
22. Cruden/Barrett
23. Crotty

Exactly. Would that defeat most international teams? Yep.

Going to need to go a bit deeper than Harris at hooker yet. We had are first 4 go down.

Would they go on to win 16 in a row? I'd be doubtful of that.

Suddenly there's a lot of players with less than 20 caps that haven't been in as good form in 2014 as they were in 2013.

Add Moore, TPN, Sio, Palu, Pocock or McCalman, Cooper, Speight, To'omua to out 23 to take them on and we are looking a lot stronger.

Actually scratch Cooper and Poey or McCalman from that as the AB's currently sti have injuries.

 

[Moono75]

I hope the Brisbane rugby public turn out in their usual numbers. The Wallabies traditionally get a good crowd there and we especially need one tomorrow night.

Brisbane has the best stadium to watch rugby at so hopefully they turn out and Quade back in the team should spark the locals. Great opportunity for the Wallabies to gain a psychological advantage and leave the AB's stewing for the next few months. Fortune favours the brave....nothing to lose for the Wallabies.....except maybe a coach