Wallabies v All Blacks Saturday 26th August at Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin

[barbarian]

In the final try Scott Barrett makes a pass to Kieran Reid who goes through a hole then passes to TJ Perenara.

It seemed to me that the defender on Reid was Foley and it was Foley who needed to increase his line speed and move to his right better in order to close the hole that was created in behind Beale. In this instance is Foley credited with a missed tackle? From what I have read it appears that punters are pointing at Beale for shooting out in defense. Foley didn't even lay a finger on Reid and simply slipped over and was out of the play.

Obviously there was a (lack of) communication issue between Beale and Foley in this instance. Can this be seen as a failure in the defensive system we used on the night or an individual skills failure or that we were simply outplayed in this moment?

I think it was just a tired defensive line in the 78th minute of a fast-paced test. Read ran a lovely line, and I'm not sure you can really go too hard on any of our defenders involved in that particular play.

Certainly our defence was miles better than last week. But really this week was about 'par' for me as an international side, it's last week that was the real issue.
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[Derpus]

I think it was just a tired defensive line in the 78th minute of a fast-paced test. Read ran a lovely line, and I'm not sure you can really go too hard on any of our defenders involved in that particular play.

Certainly our defence was miles better than last week. But really this week was about 'par' for me as an international side, it's last week that was the real issue.
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Yeah, we still conceded 35 points and blew a 17 - 0 lead. Hardly world beating.

 

[ACT Crusader]

No. We threw 2 to Arnold and 3 to Rodda.

Rodda is a big unit and if he can match his size with workrate and physicality he will be a very good prospect for years to come.

I noticed we threw to one on at least one occasion when Rodda was on the park.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Yep, 5 tries, one held up, and the knock on against the post plus the penalty try and Hanigan which should have been and at least one scrum before TPN came on where we were very lucky getting away with a collapse in the 5m line.

Let through lots of opportunities again

Still, better

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[Lorenzo]

The simplified defensive structure was hugely better and Foley and Beale really stood up in defence which was important. Clearly we are better backing our players to make their tackles in the simplest way possible rather than trying to have a convoluted defensive structure which tries to avoid certain players having to make tackles.

It was better, and that's good, but that's off a 50 point night so let's not get too excited. We still allowed 35 points, and we will pretty much never win when that happens. If you look back through or scoring against them, its rare as rocking horse shit that we can get out of the 20s.

Things didn't quite go to plan for them in Saturday but they clearly think they can score at will on us and they're not entirely wrong about that.

 

[ACT Crusader]

What is thought? What is rugby? Who actually ARE the Waratahs? Isn't this all just a construct, a way for all of us to waste time as the world spins around us?

In other words.... Foley is still heaps better than Quade.
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A young fella like you baabaa, fresh from University should be well indoctrinated in that stuff

 

[dru]

Excellent improvement though I fear not the vindication that many are suggesting. In particular the D barn dance is much better - note it is not dropped, but better implementation on a simpler version. To be fair, I'd prefer for Cheika to hold his ground and I'm hoping Bled #1 was "too much too soon" and that we will see the intention develop as we go forward.

A couple of thoughts though, stats from Force Fan between the two games:

Bled 1 turnovers:
Wallabies 21 - All Blacks 12

Bled 2 turnovers:
Wallabies 9 - All Blacks 18.

So the D barn dance was not tested in Bled #2 anywhere near what it was in Bled #1. We also stretched our luck. Perfect example is the first try following a turnover in the first 30 seconds. The re-balance through the line DID provide a solid straight line of D. Excellent, ABs must create opportunity rather than have it handed to them. Still our numbering up was poor leaving a two man overlap out wide. Later in the game you'd often see a forward out wide in D, not enough time here? Also Genia doubled back to full back sweeper role, but could not be fast enough to cover from Blind to open side to side.

If Folau doesn't succeed with the intercept it's All Blacks scoring - a 10 point try to Folau. I'll take it, but if this was a planned move it's possibly not the most risk averse plan we could implement.

Without looking to each turnover, consider roughly 16:40 game time. What I like here is Folau caught at the turnover defending close to the ruck. Rather than pushing the D barn dance he trusts the players where he cant be, patience by the ruck through I think 3 phases, before shifting - typically to open side wing. That's more like it!

That patience, and willingness to commit during that turnover inter-regnum is a huge difference. But we'll need more game pressure through turnovers before I'm ready to say Cheika is back in business.

Other notes - Both Beale and Foley are being protected in D. [Which is appropriate.] But it's by positional move -sliding out with the ruck for Foley. This means the "protection" is the forwards stepping up "he's mine Bernard". Another thing to like. Both Beale and Foley then DO step up their tackles when needed. It's nice coordination. Forward communication is "move on, this is for the pigs". Like it.

Finally. I got lost trying to fathom the Speight positional play. Are there wingers here who can explain it? He marked 11 or 14 at different times. I suspect that Folau and DHP are swapping in attack and D between full back and open side wing but couldn't work out where and why Speight is open side or tight side.

Speak if you know why!

 

[ShtinaTina]

I don't doubt his passion to win, but almost every whistle or supposed indiscretion he is reacting quite emotively in an almost uncontrollable way. Even when the whistle has gone the Wallabies way he "goes off". Quite unstable behaviour given the prevalence of it.

Still much prefer his emotion than him sitting there like a stunned mullet.

I'd be careful what aspersions you may be casting with how you've worded your comment, unless of course you know the man on a personal level or are a qualified professional in certain areas.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I'd be careful what aspersions you may be casting with how you've worded your comment, unless of course you know the man on a personal level or are a qualified professional in certain areas.

Hahaha, it's the internet, it's built on aspersions insults and porn.

 

[ShtinaTina]

Hahaha, it's the internet, it's built on aspersions insults and porn.

What about Cat memes???

 

[chasmac]

I think it was just a tired defensive line in the 78th minute of a fast-paced test. Read ran a lovely line, and I'm not sure you can really go too hard on any of our defenders involved in that particular play.

Certainly our defence was miles better than last week. But really this week was about 'par' for me as an international side, it's last week that was the real issue.
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I have looked at it again. Seems like TPN should have had Scott Barrett and KB (Kurtley Beale) should have had Reid. Foley was watching BB who was sitting behind for the second man play. Very skillful by the AB's

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[Up the Guts]

Finally. I got lost trying to fathom the Speight positional play. Are there wingers here who can explain it? He marked 11 or 14 at different times. I suspect that Folau and DHP are swapping in attack and D between full back and open side wing but couldn't work out where and why Speight is open side or tight side.

Speak if you know why!

Now that you bring it up my best guess is that it is something to do with kick receipts. Obviously, you want to put Folau in a position to take all the high balls but DHP probably provides more options up the back to Speight in regards to kicking and is perhaps better under the high ball as well (although he let in that try against Italy). So I think potentially the plan when the ABs were in their own half was to have DHP covering the wipers kicks on the open side and Folau covering the middle of the field whilst Speight marked up on the short side.

 

[dru]

Now that you bring it up my best guess is that it is something to do with kick receipts. Obviously, you want to put Folau in a position to take all the high balls but DHP probably provides more options up the back to Speight in regards to kicking and is perhaps better under the high ball as well (although he let in that try against Italy). So I think potentially the plan when the ABs were in their own half was to have DHP covering the wipers kicks on the open side and Folau covering the middle of the field whilst Speight marked up on the short side.

Yes I'm pretty sure that DHP and Folau are swapping open side wing (where I would put Folau) and FB. But during play sometimes Speight would end up open side. Then I thought maybe is was a left or right wing thing. Note also Speight was 14 last week 11 this week. Something else happening I think - possibly to do with field position.

 

[fatprop]

Yes I'm pretty sure that DHP and Folau are swapping open side wing (where I would put Folau) and FB. But during play sometimes Speight would end up open side. Then I thought maybe is was a left or right wing thing. Note also Speight was 14 last week 11 this week. Something else happening I think - possibly to do with field position.

The usual reason is this

 

[Strewthcobber]

Speight was defending open side wing at most of the stoppages, outside of Kurindrani (see pendulum above). Izzy then further outside him when we were close to our line.

When we were defending a large blindside, Kurindrani went to the blindside wing for the 1-on-1, with Speight outside of Beale on the open side (at traditional 13 position)

 

[Up the Guts]

Perhaps Speight was also defending on the open side from set pieces because he's better on the drift. I didn't really notice were we rushing off scrums and full lineouts or using drift/slide defence when we were outnumbered with Folau or whoever was at fullback out of the line? Certainly he has more speed than DHP and would make sense that he's better able to shut down the man out side on the jockey.

 

[KAOPointman]

Whereas you dismiss it KAOP.
Two opposite reactions, based on the pre-conceptions of the two parties.

Umm I did not miss it.....check my posts again buddy.....one of my first in this thread! I gave a full assessment of ALL good AND BAD actions performed in the game by Foley. I did not however include every single step, breath or regulation tackle!

 

[jimmydubs]

I wonder if there is a correlation between Foley doing a shitload of defence in the front line, and his inaccurate goal kicking.

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I doubt it considering he missed 2/3 in the first 14 minutes.

 

[jimmydubs]

He only gets those kind of figures usually when he is used as the shooter, where his role is as much to harass and slow as it is to make the tackle

I saw he missed Arron Smith twice when he wasn't shooting. I was asking if the stat's were accurate. Not looking for excuses.

 

[fatprop]

I saw he missed Arron Smith twice when he wasn't shooting. I was asking if the stat's were accurate. Not looking for excuses.

Are you counting Smith try? that would be a tad harsh

When the scrum is being analed, a 7 can either mercat and we have a push over or do the pushing work and be beaten. It is a lose/lose situation