Wallabies v All Blacks Saturday 26th August at Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin

[dru]

The usual reason is this

Thanks. I'd imagine it's a Cheika pendulum. But note that Folau is dropping into that open wing position, bolstered by Speight. Genia is in the the sweep mode, deeper than 9 in the diagramme.

 

[KAOPointman]

Are you kidding?

Both of those were thrown wide because we did have advantage so it was worth trying a hail mary play to try and make a break.

Ok so your kind of right....the 8th min was given adv for ABs going off their feet.....but then under zero pressure.....Foley then throws a terrible wide pass at Beale's feet that gets try intercepted. Not really a great use of adv from a playmaker right? YOU call it "Hail Mary", I call it a regulation wide pass!

The 27th min pass was definitely not under advantage.....it was a wide pass in front of Folou who was tackled early but had no chance of getting it anyway. Call came from the sideline after the event.....Runaway try, LUCKY again!

On top of that was the 42nd min pass where Foley just flicks a no look pass to his outside with no overlap or advantage in sight. Luckily it gets mopped up.

 

[jimmydubs]

I overlooked that fact. However, having the extra option is at least beneficial to the extent it creates some doubt in the opposition's mind.

Pulls hair out.

 

[dru]

I doubt it considering he missed 2/3 in the first 14 minutes.

Really? I'll re-watch that first 20. My recollection is the forwards taking good care of Foley as he shifted across in D. He'd get involved when he had to but the forwards took the brunt. Looked pretty good to me.

 

[Braveheart81]

Ok so your kind of right..the 8th min was given adv for ABs going off their feet...but then under zero pressure...Foley then throws a terrible wide pass at Beale's feet that gets try intercepted. Not really a great use of adv from a playmaker right? YOU call it "Hail Mary", I call it a regulation wide pass!

The 27th min pass was definitely not under advantage...it was a wide pass in front of Folou who was tackled early but had no chance of getting it anyway. Call came from the sideline after the event...Runaway try, LUCKY again!

On top of that was the 42nd min pass where Foley just flicks a no look pass to his outside with no overlap or advantage in sight. Luckily it gets mopped up.

I wasn't sure which two you were referring to. There were two instances in the match where we got a penalty advantage in a position where we would have kicked but instead tried to throw a wide pass because we had the advantage. Neither of them worked but the advantage came when nothing was really on.

The one where Folau got tackled early clearly wasn't under advantage because the penalty was for the reason Folau didn't catch the ball. I think you are wrong that he wouldn't have got to that. He was drifting outside his man to catch the pass.

 

[Braveheart81]

Really? I'll re-watch that first 20. My recollection is the forwards taking good care of Foley as he shifted across in D. He'd get involved when he had to but the forwards took the brunt. Looked pretty good to me.

He's saying he missed 2 out of 3 kicks in the first 20 minutes so it wasn't due to fatigue from tackling.

 

[KAOPointman]

First of all, I didn't actually sit and watch the whole game.
Having said that, I have a question regarding Foley's defense.
In the final try Scott Barrett makes a pass to Kieran Reid who goes through a hole then passes to TJ Perenara.
It seemed to me that the defender on Reid was Foley and it was Foley who needed to increase his line speed and move to his right better in order to close the hole that was created in behind Beale. In this instance is Foley credited with a missed tackle? From what I have read it appears that punters are pointing at Beale for shooting out in defense. Foley didn't even lay a finger on Reid and simply slipped over and was out of the play.
Obviously there was a (lack of) communication issue between Beale and Foley in this instance. Can this be seen as a failure in the defensive system we used on the night or an individual skills failure or that we were simply outplayed in this moment?

Be careful about pointing out Bernard's Foleys bud.....people get touchy considering how poor his defensive stats were at Super level this year....and his poor defensive reads in the first test!

 

[jimmydubs]

Are you counting Smith try? that would be a tad harsh

When the scrum is being analed, a 7 can either mercat and we have a push over or do the pushing work and be beaten. It is a lose/lose situation

????
I was replying to "he only missed that many when shooting" [edit: fuck me. It was your original post!? Are you on fucking Dismal strength medication?]
There's 2 misses not shooting, someone else pointed out a few more on the wing. So how many were shooting? 1?

So the inital comment that the 6 missed tackles were due to the shooting role is BS.

Having a missed tackle counted as a missed tackle in the statistics is harsh? Should we have another column for missed but my fav (big love heart) player so it doesn't count?

So.
Foley missed lots of shots because he made lots of tackles (bull dust as 2/3 missed in first 14 mins). But 3 in the new column "he's my fav player (big love heart) so it doesn't count as a miss since he hit the post.
Hooper as per above 6 missed tackles. But ignore that state as he was either shooting or defending the open side of the scrum. Even though those excuses are BS.
Hanigan made the lineout much better by making no takes and standing around looking cool. (much love).

I do my beat to not be parochial. Which is actually fairly easy with there be basically no Reds in the team and I've lived 50% of my life overseas. 10% in NSW. And also my formative years with a banjo in hand.
But FFS the utter tripe that gets sprayed round in defence of any valid criticism or even just a question on a statement for a NSWELSHMan is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong KAOP posts piss me off too. They're one eyed vitriol just as bad as the soft blue PR machine. Saddam did havr weapons of mass destruction, honest.

I'm over it. Get some fucking objectivity everyone.

Or else I'll ask KAOP to do his Foley analysis on every Tahs in the team.

I do look forward to seeing how the opinion of Simmons changes though.

I'm out for a while. I can't stand spectacled yes men and half blind parrots.

Oh and our defence was better but still shit. Probably shouldve been 7 tries let in instead of 5. Bug improvement from 8.

Oz rugby needs a wake up call and I fear bled 1 wasn't it.

Edit: rant sent from phone. Don't point of any autocorrect or other grammatical errors if you know what's good for you

 

[Quick Hands]

Are you kidding?

Both of those were thrown wide because we did have advantage so it was worth trying a hail mary play to try and make a break.

BH, tens of thousands of posts and you get sucked into a Foley v Cooper discussion.

 

[fatprop]

Thanks. I'd imagine it's a Cheika pendulum. But note that Folau is dropping into that open wing position, bolstered by Speight. Genia is in the the sweep mode, deeper than 9 in the diagramme.

Yeah I think there are a million variations of it, Folau ends up open the open side wing a lot for the Tahs as well in defense.

I have never bothered to look where the openside winger, I probably should

 

[KAOPointman]

????
I was replying to "he only missed that many when shooting"
There's 2 misses not shooting, someone else pointed out a few more on the wing. So how many were shooting? 1?

So the inital comment that the 6 missed were due to the shooting role is BS.

Having a missed tackle counted as a missed tackle in the statistics is harsh? Should we have another column for missed but my fav (big love heart) player so it doesn't count?

So.
Foley missed lots of shots because he made lots of tackles (bull dust as 2/3 missed in first 14 mins). But 3 in the new column "he's my fav player (big love heart) so it doesn't count as a miss since he hit the post.
Hooper as per above 6 missed. But ignore that state as he was either shooting or defending the open side of the scrum. Even though those excuses are BS.
Hanigan made the lineout much better by making no takes and standing around looking cool. (much love).

I do my beat to not be parochial. Which is actually fairly easy with there be basically no Reds in the team and I've lived 50% of my life overseas. 10% in NSW. And also my formative years with a banjo in hand.
But FFS the utter tripe that gets sprayed round in defence of any valid criticism or even just a question on a statement for a NSWELSHMan is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong KAOP posts piss me off too. They're one eyed vitriol just as bad as the soft blue PR machine. Saddam did havr weapons of mass destruction, honest.

I'm over it. Get some fucking objectivity everyone.

Or else I'll ask KAOP to do his Foley analysis on every Tahs in the team.

I do look forward to seeing how the opinion of Simmons changes though.

I'm out for a while. I can't stand spectacled yes men and half blind parrots.

Oh and our defence was better but still shit. Probably shouldve been 7 tries let in instead of 5. Bug improvement from 8.

Oz rugby needs a wake up call and I fear bled 1 wasn't it.

Mate take a chill pill. Feel perfectly free to debate my assessments on Foley(unless your 16 of course?) because that's what adults do mate! There's enough blind haters here as it is.....people who comment before the fact and have no idea....but I do it for many of your above mentioned reasons.....deal with it.

 

[Quick Hands]

 

[fatprop]

I was replying to "he only missed that many when shooting"
There's 2 misses not shooting, someone else pointed out a few more on the wing. So how many were shooting? 1?

So the inital comment that the 6 missed were due to the shooting role is BS.

My comment was more about the usual way he plays and when he usually misses, without going through the minutiae of this game

Or else I'll ask KAOP to do his Foley analysis on every Tahs in the team.

I thought he was Koda Nasser

I do look forward to seeing how the opinion of Simmons changes though.

He will be an upgrade on Mumm at best

I do my beat to not be parochial. Which is actually fairly easy with there be basically no Reds in the team and I've lived 50% of my life overseas. 10% in NSW. And also my formative years with a banjo in hand.

I still remember sitting in the back of a taxi in Brisbane as the driver explained colourfully "why you southerners didn't understand us", I explained to him politely we didn't care

 

[KAOPointman]

First of all, I didn't actually sit and watch the whole game.
Having said that, I have a question regarding Foley's defense.
In the final try Scott Barrett makes a pass to Kieran Reid who goes through a hole then passes to TJ Perenara.
It seemed to me that the defender on Reid was Foley and it was Foley who needed to increase his line speed and move to his right better in order to close the hole that was created in behind Beale. In this instance is Foley credited with a missed tackle? From what I have read it appears that punters are pointing at Beale for shooting out in defense. Foley didn't even lay a finger on Reid and simply slipped over and was out of the play.
Obviously there was a (lack of) communication issue between Beale and Foley in this instance. Can this be seen as a failure in the defensive system we used on the night or an individual skills failure or that we were simply outplayed in this moment?

If you watch it closely from the goal line view you can see that all wallabies are marked up directly on An AB except Foley. As Beale slides right to help with the two players attacking the Adv line....Foley stays flat footed....doesn't see Read in open space in front of him u til too late and slips over. Reed is actually tackled by McMahon who moves pasts 3 wallabies to cover for Foley slipping and not sliding. Too late...they're in behind our line.
I only partially blamed Foley as I think he's been slipping over and missing tackles all year, so his team mates should be used to it and cover for him.....(was that vitriolic enough for use)

 

[KAOPointman]

I wasn't sure which two you were referring to. There were two instances in the match where we got a penalty advantage in a position where we would have kicked but instead tried to throw a wide pass because we had the advantage. Neither of them worked but the advantage came when nothing was really on.

The one where Folau got tackled early clearly wasn't under advantage because the penalty was for the reason Folau didn't catch the ball. I think you are wrong that he wouldn't have got to that. He was drifting outside his man to catch the pass.

There was another where he made a great descission under adv to cross kick to Folou!executed perfectly!

 

[Strewthcobber]

Quick look at Folau's positioning

Mid-field scrum
Setup is fairly conventional. Foley, Beale with DHP back away from the ball and kurindrani and Speight on the half's side with Izzy at the back.

As soon as it's clear which direction the ball is going, Izzy sprints to the wing with DHP swing to FB.

ABs drop the ball and Izzy is ready for the counter in the right wing.

Now, my question. Would you prefer to be attacking a Beale/Foley/DHP defensive unit, or a Speight/K/Izzy?

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

 

[KAOPointman]

Quick look at Folau's positioning

Mid-field scrum
Setup is fairly conventional. Foley, Beale with DHP back away from the ball and kurindrani and Speight on the half's side with Izzy at the back.

As soon as it's clear which direction the ball is going, Izzy sprints to the wing with DHP swing to FB.

ABs drop the ball and Izzy is ready for the counter in the right wing.

Now, my question. Would you prefer to be attacking a Beale/Foley/DHP defensive unit, or a Speight/K/Izzy?

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

That's a trick question right?

Statistically those 2 groups averages this year aren't miles apart with Speight/K/Folou missing a few more tackles on average.....but a better tackle efficiency rating of about 70% vs Foley and DHP 49% and 58% respectively! Beale has only training and some pretty good recent form to go off. Stats don't tell it all tho...but id run at the smaller slower group all day!

 

[Up the Guts]

Quick look at Folau's positioning

Mid-field scrum
Setup is fairly conventional. Foley, Beale with DHP back away from the ball and kurindrani and Speight on the half's side with Izzy at the back.


As soon as it's clear which direction the ball is going, Izzy sprints to the wing with DHP swing to FB.

ABs drop the ball and Izzy is ready for the counter in the right wing.

Now, my question. Would you prefer to be attacking a Beale/Foley/DHP defensive unit, or a Speight/K/Izzy?

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

You'd choose Foley, Beale, and DHP 8 days a week but what's also pretty tempting is choosing the side with an overlap (until Folau can cover) that Mckenzie, Barrett, and Ioane are on. They might also have had something else planned back in midfield after the first phase but I expect they were a bit rattled at 17-0 down and wanted to get the ball in the hands of the most explosive players. Sensible option might have been to see if SBW could get an offload away running into Foley and Beale (assuming he was fully fit) or at least make gain line and then swing it back and try and get it in the hands of Ioane.

 

[KOB1987]

I know we've got nothing to show for it, but scoring 45 unanswered points against the ABs in 55 minutes would have to be a record wouldn't it? For any team

EDIT: It was actually 45 minutes.

 

[tragic]

My comment was more about the usual way he plays and when he usually misses, without going through the minutiae of this game

Now I've heard it all.
I've been proven wrong so I'll claim I was referring to historical missed tackles rather than the missed tackles which are actually being discussed in this game thread.
And your comments about the Hooper miss for Smiths try are a bit far fetched - watch it again. Hooper broke at the right time, put himself in the right position to make the tackle, but got owned 1 on 1 by an awesome sidestep. Simple missed tackle, no excuses.
He deserves his spot and had a good game but let's have some objectivity FFS