Wallabies v All Blacks Saturday 26th August at Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin

[KAOPointman]

Those who think Beale should be at FB.....what about the form he's shown where he is!
Is he better then Folou under the highball? (NO)
Is he better at kicking?(NO)
Is he a better open field defender?(NO)
Is he faster to cover ground?(NO)
Attacking vision and so on.....
And what happens to our playmaking ability?

I really struggle too see the logic there!

 

[girtbysea]

Foley takes the ball too far back (he is not the only one). Have a look at where Barrett kicks from and then Foley with all those kicks around the 15m in mark. I remember kickers like Lynagh, McLean, Ollie Campbell etc all saying accuracy before distance. If Foley was on or inside the 22 those kicks sneak through.

In defence of Foley's kicking, every kicker has an off day (I've seen Carter have an off day), the tragedy is Foley picked last night to have it! Overall, his goal kicking is pretty accurate from within 45 metres, as his 80% record this Super season would reflect. And it's not like his kicking was woeful, three hit the upright!
Would it be good to have a better goal-kicker than Foley? Of course it would, but he isn't that bad an option. His kicking out of hand? Now that's a different story.

 

[Quick Hands]

He said at the time it was on a call from one of the ARs.

Indeed he did, but he's not obliged to follow it. Only penalty in the whole match where a front row player from either side was penalised IIRC. Interesting that they focussed on that one - particularly when the team feeding had clearly won the ball. (Which is one of my pet hates)

 

[KAOPointman]

On the Retallick incident, very hard to make a judgement from the limited footage available, but one thing is clear is that Retallick has his hand between Hanigan's legs when he lifts him up and tips him over. The intention may well be just to get Hanigan off him, but there is no doubt the hand between the legs is what causes Hanigan to be tipped up and dropped on his head.

Totally agree....and if you look carefully....Retallick is not trying to get to his feet....he is staying on his knees, with one arm wrapped around the player and pushes up. No intent to get to his feet, but clearly lifting a player dangerously. And how many times have we seen alllll year.....it doesn't matter if you mean it....you put another player in a dangerous position.....u pay! Let's see how the panel views it.......

 

[Ulrich]

Those who think Beale should be at FB...what about the form he's shown where he is!
Is he better then Folou under the highball? (NO)
Is he better at kicking?(NO)
Is he a better open field defender?(NO)
Is he faster to cover ground?(NO)
Attacking vision and so on...
And what happens to our playmaking ability?

I really struggle too see the logic there!

He is better at kicking YES. He is a much better defender, YES, and he has better vision than Folau could ever dream of.

The only trump cards Folau may have over him is with fielding the high ball and pace.

Beale over Folau for me any day.

 

[Quick Hands]

Christ Cheika could you at least post under your right name??

Please, I think that my syntax and grammar are a little better than that.

 

[Quick Hands]

He is better at kicking YES. He is a much better defender, YES, and he has better vision than Folau could ever dream of.

The only trump cards Folau may have over him is with fielding the high ball and pace.

Beale over Folau for me any day.

Hard to argue with that logic.

 

[KAOPointman]

He is better at kicking YES. He is a much better defender, YES, and he has better vision than Folau could ever dream of.

The only trump cards Folau may have over him is with fielding the high ball and pace.

Beale over Folau for me any day.

Mate I'm talking about at Full Back, not attacking vission standing in the front line at 10 or 12....attacking in open field there is no one in world rugby that beats more people then Folou!! And you can't bring the ball back if you can't catch it. Too bad Beale doesn't play at FB to compare because contrary to some thoughts....his kicking stats are fine. Not that we want a FB that kicks all the time anyway. Folou made 1 kick mistake this year....I saw at least 2 shanks off the side of the boot at Wasps This year from Beale. So that's debatable!

 

[Ulrich]

Mate I'm talking about at Full Back, not attacking vission standing in the front line at 10 or 12..attacking in open field there is no one in world rugby that beats more people then Folou!! And you can't bring the ball back if you can't catch it. Too bad Beale doesn't play at FB to compare because contrary to some thoughts..his kicking stats are fine. Not that we want a FB that kicks all the time anyway. Folou made 1 kick mistake this year..I saw at least 2 shanks off the side of the boot at Wasps This year from Beale. So that's debatable!

Points taken.

I maintain that Beale would be better at 15 than Folau (and I stand by saying I think he has more attacking nous than Folau - more of a rugby mind to him). He certainly is not useless at catching the ball either is he or is Folau the only rugby player that can catch a ball?

Folau may be quicker so he is more suited to wing. Beale can help dictate the game from the back and that chap from the Reds can have a go at 12 I reckon.

 

[KAOPointman]

Points taken.

I maintain that Beale would be better at 15 than Folau (and I stand by saying I think he has more attacking nous than Folau - more of a rugby mind to him). He certainly is not useless at catching the ball either is he or is Folau the only rugby player that can catch a ball?

Folau may be quicker so he is more suited to wing. Beale can help dictate the game from the back and that chap from the Reds can have a go at 12 I reckon.

He certainly has a better rugby brain then Folou, and that's why his form is so good up in the traffic attacking zone. Folau beats more players and makes more tackle busts then any other FB by far....except Mckensie.(and he's a FB)
My biggest problem is taking Beale away from a position he's great at, we NEED him there, and shuffling others around for no clear gains for losses!

 

[Derpus]

Beale defended excellently last night, bossed SBW. His attacking game has never been in question so as long as his defense holds up i see no reason to move him.

He'd offer less from the back and Izzy would offer less from the wing.

 

[Lorenzo]

Beale would beat folau over any distance every time.

 

[Ulrich]

He certainly has a better rugby brain then Folou, and that's why his form is so good up in the traffic attacking zone. Folau beats more players and makes more tackle busts then any other FB by far..except Mckensie.(and he's a FB)
My biggest problem is taking Beale away from a position he's great at, we NEED him there, and shuffling others around for no clear gains for losses!

Depends how you look at it I suppose.

For mine a 15 with a steady rugby brain and boot trumps being the greatest attacking threat especially since he may be right next to you in 11 or 14 so you could unleash him as you wish.

Plus being Beale you're no idiot yourself when it comes to breaking the line and having had experience at 10, 12, wing & 15 you sure do know how to deal with pressure and defend.

EDIT: It's also not only about Beale being at 15, but also getting possibly one of Australia's best defenders to play 12 in Karmichael.

You would have a playmaker at 10, 12 & 15 then. That's what you want I reckon. That's what any team wants.

 

[TSR]

He certainly has a better rugby brain then Folou, and that's why his form is so good up in the traffic attacking zone. Folau beats more players and makes more tackle busts then any other FB by far..except Mckensie.(and he's a FB)
My biggest problem is taking Beale away from a position he's great at, we NEED him there, and shuffling others around for no clear gains for losses!

What would you do with Hunt if he was available?

If Beale stats at 12, Hunt goes to the bench - which I guess is a good sign if we can get to the point of having him off the bench. But, even on the back of Kurtleys efforts last night, I still reckon we'd be a better team with Hunt there.

Also, IMO, pushing Beale back doesn't have to mean Folau moves up. Although, of course, the alternative is Foley defends back in the line, leaving Folau and Beale back. Or Beale defends at 10.

 

[Lorenzo]

Depends how you look at it I suppose.

For mine a 15 with a steady rugby brain and boot trumps being the greatest attacking threat especially since he may be right next to you in 11 or 14 so you could unleash him as you wish.

Plus being Beale you're no idiot yourself when it comes to breaking the line and having had experience at 10, 12, wing & 15 you sure do know how to deal with pressure and defend.

EDIT: It's also not only about Beale being at 15, but also getting possibly one of Australia's best defenders to play 12 in Karmichael.

You would have a playmaker at 10, 12 & 15 then. That's what you want I reckon. That's what any team wants.

Indeed. The most important attribute for a 15 is a boot that can put the next lineout on the 45 rather than the 25.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Please, I think that my syntax and grammar are a little better than that.

you know what I mean?

 

[dru]

What would you do with Hunt if he was available?

If Beale stats at 12, Hunt goes to the bench - which I guess is a good sign if we can get to the point of having him off the bench. But, even on the back of Kurtleys efforts last night, I still reckon we'd be a better team with Hunt there.

Also, IMO, pushing Beale back doesn't have to mean Folau moves up. Although, of course, the alternative is Foley defends back in the line, leaving Folau and Beale back. Or Beale defends at 10.

For me, Folau's best position is open side wing. We then, I think, work both Hunt and Beale into the team. 12/15 seems to be the main decission.

Beale's defence improved out of sight last night, at international level that was adequate. Fans saying Beale's defence was sensational are overdoing it, it was a sensational improvement for sure. On D though, Hunt to 12.

In terms of "second playmaker" (we dont really have a first playmaker) Beale lost some of his flamboyance as he picked up his D. I suspect giving less D role might open up his playmaking, providing we give him a roving role. That roving role might not fit well with Hunt, but if you can sort it, Hunt 12, Beale 15/roving second playmaker.

If you select on form and club positional experience, Hunt 15, Beale 12.

It would be a pity to put one on the pine.

On another note, I asked a question last week about Speight and how well he would be at blind side. He's a great player and performed well, but not sure I'd pick him there. How would Hodge fit at 11 ( given 12 is taken)?

 

[Quick Hands]

Foley takes the ball too far back (he is not the only one). Have a look at where Barrett kicks from and then Foley with all those kicks around the 15m in mark. I remember kickers like Lynagh, McLean, Ollie Campbell etc all saying accuracy before distance. If Foley was on or inside the 22 those kicks sneak through.

He needs to take it back so far because of his run up. Any closer and half his kicks would be charged down.

 

[KOB1987]

There's a vid doing the rounds on Twitter, I can't copy it but if you've recorded the game have a look at Coles' filthy cleanout on Foley at 45:58 and keep your eye on it till 46:05

Interestingly it was posted by a Kiwi

 

[Derpus]

There's a vid doing the rounds on Twitter, I can't copy it but if you've recorded the game have a look at Coles' filthy cleanout on Foley at 45:58 and keep your eye on it till 46:05

Theres a thing out there that you should all see. I won't let you see it. But you should see it.