Wallabies v All Blacks, Saturday 19th August, ANZ Stadium Sydney

[Joe Blow]

I dont think the result was a surprise, the only surprise for me was that we scored so many points.

There was no reason to expect the Wallabies to be able to compete, the entire Super Rugby season has shown that in every position New Zealand are better than us.

What annoyed me most was the number of times our team would jog rather than run.

Kerevi was caught out of position plenty of times and would just continue to jog towards where he was meant to be and then watch the All Blacks run in a try. I can accept he is not the best defender but expect him to at least look like he is trying to get to the tackle.

What we missed the most in the backs is a leader, someone who can control the team and direct them where to go. I have never thought of Falou, Beale or Kerevi as leaders, they may be leaders off the field but when is the last time they have been heard shouting to the man inside or outside to get in position?

I think K Hunt was really missed for this reason, he directs the team.

I wonder if Anthony Fainga'a has ever thought of defensive coaching? He understood how to get the line in order.

TK leads the team in defense and is always there in attack.. K. Hunt showed similar traits in June. For now TK should always be there.

 

[Braveheart81]

Foley is still our best option at 10 from a pretty shallow talent pool. The player we missed most last night was KHunt at 12 - terrific defender, great talker, runs hard at the line with ball in hand but can also slot in as 2nd playmaker with his deft passing and kicking game. In his absence Hodge to 12, TK 13, KB (Kurtley Beale) 22.

The defence was reasonable in the second half when TK came on.

I think it is pretty clear we will have a Beale and Kuridrani centre pairing next weekend after Kerevi got dragged at half time.


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[tragic]

When's naivalu due back? Must be soon.

 

[Ignoto]

Has anyone got the full post match interview with Cheika? Just reading some of the snippets from the ABC is making me question why Cheika should even be part of the coaching staff;

"I'm not going to respond about not being up to standard defensively."

Asked if he'd persist with Grey and his structures, Cheika said: "100 per cent … 100 per cent".

It just looks like he's putting his head in the sand and neither him of Grey are willing to address that defensively we have an issue which has plagued us and the Waratahs for two years.....

 

[Lorenzo]

Thinking a new coach needs to be Australian is the same amateur era crap thy we constantly ridicule he aru and state unions for.

Just find someone that has turned a team around or outperformed relative to their resources, and understands that they may not simply be able to replicate their provincial footy plan at test level.

Johann Ackerman is an example of the former. Establishing the latter should be possible in a brief interview

 

[cyclopath]

Has anyone got the full post match interview with Cheika? Just reading some of the snippets from the ABC is making me question why Cheika should even be part of the coaching staff;





It just looks like he's putting his head in the sand and neither him of Grey are willing to address that defensively we have an issue which has plagued us and the Waratahs for two years...

I'm not sure either of them have an answer.

 

[kiap]

Has anyone got the full post match interview with Cheika?

http://www.rugby.com.au/videos/2017/08/19/14/32/full-press-conference-cheika-hooper

 

[Up the Guts]

Taking a step back there's a part of me that feels a 60+ point drubbing would have been a good thing for Australian rugby. Particularly worrying was that Cheika seemed to indicate in his post-match interview that the 4 tries to 2 second half legitimised the coaching systems he's implemented and it was a lack of 'belief' that cost the Wallabies in the first half. I'm willing to buy into the whole belief and attitude thing to some extent but only if you can actually get the basics right. Guys can be willing to tackle but if the defensive structures don't put them in positions to make tackles then the defense is going to leak like a sieve no matter how much you 'want to make it.' Just worried now we're going to have another period where we're rearranging the deck-chairs on the titanic when it's best we sink the ship and build a new one.

 

[Quick Hands]

Thinking a new coach needs to be Australian is the same amateur era crap thy we constantly ridicule he aru and state unions for.

Just find someone that has turned a team around or outperformed relative to their resources, and understands that they may not simply be able to replicate their provincial footy plan at test level.

Johann Ackerman is an example of the former. Establishing the latter should be possible in a brief interview

I realise that English is a complex language, but saying that the "ideal" candidate would be Australian, is not the same as saying that the coach "needs" to be Australian.

As it stands, if Cheika falls under the proverbial bus, there is no available Australian candidate that I can see (which was the actual point that I was making).

BTW, Scott Johnson and Eddie Jones both meet the criteria that you set out in your second paragraph (and at international level).

 

[I like to watch]

Has anyone got the full post match interview with Cheika? Just reading some of the snippets from the ABC is making me question why Cheika should even be part of the coaching staff;





It just looks like he's putting his head in the sand and neither him of Grey are willing to address that defensively we have an issue which has plagued us and the Waratahs for two years...

It's a good indicator of what stage of his tenure he's in.

In early days, they are more than happy to identify areas of weakness with a determination to improve those areas.
Also happy to have handshake agreements.

When the writing is on the wall, they only want to talk up any positives they can latch on to, they refuse to comment on areas of weakness/poor performance.
And they want an extension,when they are only midway in their current contract.

Dead man walking

 

[Froggy]

Having just got back from the game, a couple of comments (some in line with others here, others will be roundly criticised).

Goes without saying that the defence in the first half was the worst I have ever seen from a Wallaby side, an absolute disgrace, and if Grey had any honour, he would be putting up his hand and saying 'I take responsibility, it's my job, I resign'. No-one can hold up their head, but the back four, Kerevi, Rona, Speight and Folau were awful.

Coleman clearly the best of the Wallabies, closely followed by Beale, hard to find another starter worthy of a compliment.

Kuridrani made a huge difference when he came on, as did TPN, who was in their faces and stopped the AB go-forward in the middle.

This will be unpopular, but the lift in the speed of the Wallabies game with Phipps at half changed the entire complexion, yes you get the odd bad pass, but imo the real game changers were TPN, TK & Phipps.

Looking for positives, the scrum had parity, lineout was fine, turnover ball was pretty even between the two sides, Foley didn't miss a goal.

Next week, TPN to start, along with Timani at 8, Meakes to 12, TK to 13, Folau to 14 and Beale to 15. I would start Phipps, and have Fardy at 6, but neither of these will happen. We need to keep Hanigan at 6 for the line-out with no Fardy or RHP.

Finally, Cheika. With no obvious replacement, he has until the end of the year to commence a major turn-around, or he has to go.

 

[Viking]

The Force coach is out of a job, I think he will make a better coach.

Jake White would be handy right now too.

 

[kiap]

Having just got back from the game, a couple of comments (some in line with others here, others will be roundly criticised).

Mostly on the mark, I reckon. Not sold on Phipps, mouth unzipped, but will look at all his combined Bledisloe minutes after next week.

 

[Lorenzo]

I realise that English is a complex language, but saying that the "ideal" candidate would be Australian, is not the same as saying that the coach "needs" to be Australian.

As it stands, if Cheika falls under the proverbial bus, there is no available Australian candidate that I can see (which was the actual point that I was making).

BTW, Scott Johnson and Eddie Jones both meet the criteria that you set out in your second paragraph (and at international level).

I was only partially referring to your post so didn't quote it. Apologies for misconstruing it.

I still don't really understand your point in practice, though.

I guess if you had two candidates that were precisely equal and one was Aussie, you'd choose the Aussie? That's fair enough. But when is that going to happen in a market with so few potential candidates? We aren't hiring a marketing grad here.

 

[Brumby Runner]

To extend your point Seb, name me a player in Australian professional rugby who has shown significant improvement in the past two years.

Therein lies the problem.

EDIT: And if you are able to name one, then try and name 15.

I could, if requested, name 15 players in blue shirts who have all gone backwards.

 

[TSR]

It's heard to see how it is tenable for Cheika to stay as coach - except that an unwillingness to pay him out may save him and/or the lack of availability of a
suitable replacement. After early success, his tenure has become a train wreck.

He is woefully inconsistant -
- he has a stead fast game plan which is out of touch with the modern game and is a demonstrable failure
- his selections neither support his strategy, nor are consistent in their approach with some players above reproach and some shuffled in and out on a whim
- he has promoted Larkham & Grey without any evidence that they will be successful in their appointed roles

 

[Killer]

TK leads the team in defense and is always there in attack.. K. Hunt showed similar traits in June. For now TK should always be there.

i like TK but he plays his best imo when he is being rotated because of good competition, I think we should interchange Rona and TK and keep them both hungry

 

[Brumby Runner]

Accepting your critique on Cheika for the purpose of the discussion (and I agree with at least some of the shortcomings that your have highlighted), but who do we replace him with?

Stephen Larkham, Toney McGann, Richard Graham, Nathan Grey, Chris Hickey, Michael Foley, Tim Lane, Brian Melrose or is there someone else that I've missed? (i'm not having a go, I genuinely asking)

We know that Ewen McKenzie wouldn't touch it with a long pole.

Long time posters might remember that when Link left, there was a thread devoted to naming a replacement. The vast majority of posters wanted Cheika on the basis of his success with the Waratahs. I was something of a voice in the wilderness who said that he should spend a few more years at the Waratahs building on the foundations there before moving to the Wallabies. I actually advocated Eddie Jones for the role and was set upon by all and sundry, who pointed out his failings in his previous reign. When I tried to point out that he had improved as a coach since that time, this was dismissed out of hand. Then came RWC 2015 and the performance of Japan, then came 2016 and Aust v England, then came 6N 2017. Eddie Jones was the man post Link, but like many things in Australian rugby many couldn't look beyond the past to the fuuture.

On the 19th of October 2014, I said: (He = Eddie Jones)

When he coached the Wallabies previously, I was a critic. Maybe, just maybe, he is the right man for the job at the moment.

Churchill was yesterday's man until the time of crisis but he was the man for the crisis.

I'm a big cheika fan and I think he'll make a great Wallaby coach, but I don't think this is his time.

The ideal candidate is an Australian, not currently working in Australia at the professional level, has the experience at the top level, can deal with recalcitrant players and a pathetic governing body and would have the respect (not the approval) of the players.


E. Jones & S. Johnson are the only 2 names that come to mind.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...ckenzie-resignation.14950/page-19#post-679544

Right now, I'd have Larkham in the HC spot but with Wessels as his attack/backs assistant, and with the warning that if the Wallabies performances don't improve within one year, Wessels takes over for the RWC and beyond, as long as it takes to find an out and out international coach of good standing if Wessels also fails.

I accept your position on Cheika when he was appointed, and really seem to recall your posts at the time. At the same time, I was being vilified for referring to the TGC (am I glad no-one continues with that lame tag) as "The Great Charlatan". I have really never had a good reason to change my opinion of him.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Compelling evidence they were in a habit of doing that? To be fair, they were put in a position they had never been in before - up 50 points to one of there biggest rivals in rugby history before half time.

So they don't switch off after 20+ points like most teams, we learnt it takes 50+ points for them to do that.

A new position for them to be in, they will learn from it and put 100 on us next time

Look, I'm not saying our attack was poor by any means, or the second performance was horrible. It was solid. But if we play like we did in the second half, for the entire match, despite the scoreline I think we will still lose.

We need to lift up another gear in attack, and we obviously need to lift up 10+ gears in defence (and develop a kicking game too) if are to compete consistently.

At least the set-piece was solid and Foley kicked his goals.

Seb, I think many here are forgetting that the ABs customarily start the RC slowly and build up from there. I think that is what they did, unintentionally to be sure, yesterday and they will be much more formidable in Dunedin.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I completely disagree. It's like winning the third game in a 3 match series, a dead rubber.

Even though we would all like to believe every player plays each test match with 100% commitment, it just isn't not true.

Maybe its a subconscious thing, but teams switch off without even realising it. Same way many teams lift in grand finals.

Maybe someone can remind us how many times the Tahs were in the game, even in front, at half time and then "switched off" to lose to just about anybody willing to have a go. I agree with you.