Wallabies v All Blacks III in Brisvegas

[Virgil]

Similar to how Carter was in his earlier years I reckon virg - always looked more solid with Mauger taking some of the heat off.

True i guess, Carter just seved his apprenticeship at 12, kinda like Lynagh did at the start of his career. But you always knew he would be playing at 10 sooner then later. While Gits has had a couple of very good games at 10 this year, just think he looks more natural at 12.

But then who else do you have?

Nobody. We simply do not have the talent. We don't have a true fullback either.

Quite frustrating that the Kiwis can lose so many players overseas and still have superior talent.

Not too mention one of our best coaches
Thing is you guys have a few losses of your own to worry about next year, at this stage we are looking good. No one in the main squad is going anywhere. Except Somerville and Carter (on sabbatical but available for the tests)

 

[Scarfman]

One aspect of the match which Henry got over Deans was the use of his bench. The ABs got some ascendancy and momentum from the 60 to 75 minute mark which ended up being the difference. Deans was somewhat reactionary in the use of his bench. One thing he did poorly: leaving Cordingley on for the entire match. For all his faults Sheehan has played quite well when he's come off the bench this year; he's retreated to doing the simple half-back things rather than fighting forwards and trying to run the plays and win games on his own.

Another thing: a new coach has every right to pick his support staff but am I the only one who thinks dispensing with Muggleton's services was a mistake? Our defence has been our strong point for the last ten years but this year tries have been scored against us when we looked as if there was no defensive structure.

I'm going to try to defend Deans against both these charges.

Deans frequently keeps players on for 80mins. Some coaches hook players at the 60 no matter what. Deans doesn't promise anyone a run, he waits to see what's happening. It has worked at Canterbury and I think it can work for the Wallabies. It instills a certain responsibility in the player.

With defence, it's one thing to hold the opposition out, but Deans has a defensive strategy that constantly tries to turn defence into attack. You can't have Deans as coach and not attempt to learn that culture.

 

[Sully]

one of my biggest bitchs when Jones was coach was his predetermined interchanges! if it was in the game plan that someone was pulled at 58min and 32 secs that was what happened no matter how well that player was going or how crap someone else was going! Deans obviously thought he had the best 15 on the field and he stuck with them. Now we might all know he was wrong ( I think he was right) but we don't make the decisions.

 

[cyclopath]

Won't rehash on all that's been said (just watched the game now, at a wedding last night) except a few points.
Brown - big tick for his effort, well done.
Moore - I'm a big fan...BUT that fact he threw in and scrummed well does not earn brownie points - I expect the 2 to do these things well. He needs to seagull less, use his dynamism and strength at the breakdown more, and FFS grow a brain with respect to penalties and FKs. He's a great player, but last night was not his best. Streets ahead of any other 2 though. Good effort Baxter too. In fact T5 were good at the set pieces all round, so well done.
Breakdown however, not enough intensity and willingness to just smash the ABs (especially the buggers going off their feet and killing it).
Rocky - pretty ordinary. Ditto Palu.
Horwill - huge.
Cordingley - well, he does have his own thread.
Cross - big tick, except that poor tackle on Carter.
Gutted to lose, especially as we played plenty of really dumb footy and yet got so close.

 

[Gagger]

In the hope that this wouldn't just turn into a full rant, I've slept on it. Unfortunately though, the next morning it's not looking that much better. Rage has just given way to deep disappointment.

The ultimate disappointment comes from the fact that the Wallabies had that game. Retaining 65% possession and 61% of territory, they were ahead at half time and 17-7 up after 45 minutes. With ball in hand out wide they carved upfield, driving right into the All Black 22 on four or more occasions, each time to splutter out with indecision (or wrong decision) from an achingly slow Cordingly, or a mystical decision from Kaplan.

Still, even though they could have, and should have been at least 2 tries further ahead after 50 minutes, the game was very much theirs until the disturbing Wallaby trend of 2008 - letting in soft defensive tries - got a full airing; 3 within 15 minutes. And this ignores the Muliaina try abomination in the first half, when half of the team lined up on the wrong side of the ruck to mark 2 men. Where was that amazing scrambling D off the line, infuriating the opposition into turn-overs?

So while we should have been overjoyed with the last minute comeback to score one try and threaten another, instead I was thinking - "What a f?cking show. Don't give me last minute futile comebacks, give me some mental cahones when it matters."

Along with mental and defensive frailty, another disturbing advent of 2008 appears to be a lack of fitness. I'm still finding it hard to believe this myself but it was painfully exposed in JoBurg (compounded by altitude) and yesterday we had forwards (and Cordingly) walking between rucks. Witness the final turnover (and many throughout the match) when the ABs simply had more men where they needed it when they needed it, who didn't look like they'd just climbed K2.

The glass half full version? The scrum and the line-out were strong, in fact slightly stronger than the ABs, as demonstrated by the couple of line-out steals and tight heads. Stealing a scrum turnover to set up a try in the dying minutes is pretty impressive. That's a long way since our fears of capitulation just last season.

The other upside, I guess, is that this close loss came missing two of the three first choice Wallaby inside backs. I'll save my ire for Cordingly's player rating, but his 80 minute clusterf?ck and the gaping hole screaming for a second play maker were the difference in this game.

So sure, there's the blueprint of success here, but some big, obvious problems that need attention in the coming months. As solace for the pain, that's where it get's interesting again.

 

[Jury]

Gagger: Fitness is one factor, but why Robbie didn't go to his bench is another. I don't understand it. The pace of the game was awesome and when Henry went to his bench, I expected Deans to do the same. One could argue we are lucky with the quality of our bench (i.e. we brought on Weepu, Kev, Afoa etc), but when Henry put Donald on the pitch, I thought he had lost his mind. Fresh legs are always going to beat out tiring ones - even quality ones.

 

[Scotty]

Well, I went to the game (sat in the 2nd row on the 22 - right next to where Gits converted Horwill's try) and have also watched the replay on tv. I have a few disagreements on how some of you have seen the game:

1. Coordingly wasn't always slow, as some are implying. I thought he got it out quick when he could, and he had options to give it to, and slowed it down when there weren't options or if he couldn't get it out because of McCaw playing it on the ground.

2. We lost the game after losing composure at 17-7 up. We let the game get a bit messy and the AB's managed to grab a try after a scrappy lead up, which gave them confidence and put them on track to come back at us.

3. I thought Giteau was poor in the first half, but much, much better in the second. I don't think there are any other options for us at 10 - and Barnes would stifle our attack too much.

4. Kaplan made some critical (IMO incorrect) decisions that went the ABs way. He may have helped us a bit in the scrum, but I think he allowed the AB's to get away with murder at the breakdown - several times playing the ball on the ground, not rolling away, coming in from the side and not getting pinged. I was surprised after watching the replay that McCaw wasn't even warned for repeated infringements. Some of the biggest Kaplan stuff ups I list below:

a) Penalises Moore early in the first half for entering from the side (correctly), however prior to Moore getting to the ruck the first AB support player (Mils or a winger?) had come in at about 45 degrees to support the tackled player and the Australian tackler appeared to be on his feet with his hands on the ball. Either infringements should have led to a penalty to the Wallabies straight in front of the posts on the 22.

b) As I think naza mentioned, we have no idea what the free kick at the ruck was for preceeding Cowan's break leading to the AB's 1st try. Horwill had appeared to win a turnover from the ruck, after the AB player on the ground looked to be holding onto the ball. I can only think Horwill in turn was pinged for holding on - but in that case I'm not sure why Kaplan didn't go back to what appeared to be the original infringement.

c) AB's (So'oialo) clearly should have been pinged for holding onto the ball in the ruck immediately preceeding the AB's 3rd try. I think it was either Hynes or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on their feet with hands on the ball.

d) Last ruck of the game, Mils comes in from the side to clean out (pretty obvious it is from the side since he managed to push Coordingly off the ball). Right under the nose of Kaplan, and I have absolutely no idea how he didn't see it.

 

[disco]

I have to agree with some of the comments on here about Deans not using our subs earlier, why bring MMM on with only 9 minutes to go. Rocky had been sick all week and he hadn't played well for the 1st 50 minutes why wait to see if he gets any better over the next 20 minutes??

I think Sheehan, Mitchell & MMM should of come on with at least 20 to go. We took the risk of only having one genuine flyhalf over the full 80 minutes so I can't imagine worrying about an injury was the problem & if it was just have the trainers ready with some fake blood.

 

[Gagger]

Scotty,

I think you might be lonely defending Cordingly, but I'm totally with you about Kaplan.

To point out reffing inadequacies always opens you up to being called a whiney biartch, but quite simply, Kaplan is a fluffybunny. And I don't use that word willy-nilly.

All refs make mistakes of judgement, they're only human. But he is the only one I'm convinced has a vendetta going on against Aussie teams - all starting with his spats with Gregan, which have blown out into a full on low-down-bum-disease grudge.

I remember seeing his stats over NSW games last year, something like 70% losses for the Tahs under him. Would love to see the rest.

To your point, how the fuck he pinged AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for Soaiolo holding on the ground is a total fucking mystery even to the Kiwis I know.

This post could go on for a while, I'll call it quits now.

Whiney biartch out.

 

[KiaKaha]

Scotty,

I think you might be lonely defending Cordingly, but I'm totally with you about Kaplan.

To point out reffing inadequacies always opens you up to being called a whiney biartch, but quite simply, Kaplan is a fluffybunny. And I don't use that word willy-nilly.

All refs make mistakes of judgement, they're only human. But he is the only one I'm convinced has a vendetta going on against Aussie teams - all starting with his spats with Gregan, which have blown out into a full on low-down-bum-disease grudge.

I remember seeing his stats over NSW games last year, something like 70% losses for the Tahs under him. Would love to see the rest.

To your point, how the fuck he pinged AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for Soaiolo holding on the ground is a total fucking mystery even to the Kiwis I know.

This post could go on for a while, I'll call it quits now.

Whiney biartch out.

Now you know how we feel about Cardiff last year, aah, but we're told to shut the fark up.

Why wasnt Mortlock pinged for taking out Rodders and McCaw to let Cross in?

Had Ali retained the ball 10m from the line at the 46th minute I think it was, we could well have scored, we had numbers

McCaw pinged for picking up the ball, when there were 3 Aussies on the ground, ball was out, no AB's in the ruck, therefore no ruck, you need 2 to tango, bad call.

Kaplan had warned both sides that the next man committing a foul at ruck time was going to get binned, Moore had 3 attempts to remind him, in fact Moore really wanted a black jersey, he was so keen to be on our side

Nonu picking up the ball from the ruck, hot on attack, but an Aussie leg deflects it, should have been a penalty to us, inside a knock-on was ruled, Aus scrum.

Short lineout taken between Mealamu and Afoa, bolting down the sideline, ruck set, Richie there etc, then called back - why, it was perfectly legal


Swings and roundabouts?

 

[Rugby Rat]

The Wallabies performed better than expected IMO.

The AB's and SA have a solid platform of experience to guide the newbies around the park.

Great year for the wallabies and the re build of a very competitve team in 2009 is on it's way.

Sharpie might have to stay on for one more year as Mumm and Brown get up to speed.

 

[PaarlBok]

Swings and roundabouts?

Think to blame Kaplan is a bit of a joke. Plain question is did he blow only one team of the park at the breakdowns and rucks? This area is as grey as ever. You cant blame a ref for mistakes but you can blame him for unconsistancy.

 

[Pfitzy]

Swings and roundabouts?

Zigackly. If anything, there were calls that went either way and did not affect the overall result. We were too soft.

Kaplan is still a useless fluffybunny tho.

 

[spectator]

Well, I went to the game (sat in the 2nd row on the 22 - right next to where Gits converted Horwill's try) and have also watched the replay on tv. I have a few disagreements on how some of you have seen the game:

1. Coordingly wasn't always slow, as some are implying. I thought he got it out quick when he could, and he had options to give it to, and slowed it down when there weren't options or if he couldn't get it out because of McCaw playing it on the ground.

2. We lost the game after losing composure at 17-7 up. We let the game get a bit messy and the AB's managed to grab a try after a scrappy lead up, which gave them confidence and put them on track to come back at us.

3. I thought Giteau was poor in the first half, but much, much better in the second. I don't think there are any other options for us at 10 - and Barnes would stifle our attack too much.

4. Kaplan made some critical (IMO incorrect) decisions that went the ABs way. He may have helped us a bit in the scrum, but I think he allowed the AB's to get away with murder at the breakdown - several times playing the ball on the ground, not rolling away, coming in from the side and not getting pinged. I was surprised after watching the replay that McCaw wasn't even warned for repeated infringements. Some of the biggest Kaplan stuff ups I list below:

a) Penalises Moore early in the first half for entering from the side (correctly), however prior to Moore getting to the ruck the first AB support player (Mils or a winger?) had come in at about 45 degrees to support the tackled player and the Australian tackler appeared to be on his feet with his hands on the ball. Either infringements should have led to a penalty to the Wallabies straight in front of the posts on the 22.

b) As I think naza mentioned, we have no idea what the free kick at the ruck was for preceeding Cowan's break leading to the AB's 1st try. Horwill had appeared to win a turnover from the ruck, after the AB player on the ground looked to be holding onto the ball. I can only think Horwill in turn was pinged for holding on - but in that case I'm not sure why Kaplan didn't go back to what appeared to be the original infringement.

c) AB's (So'oialo) clearly should have been pinged for holding onto the ball in the ruck immediately preceeding the AB's 3rd try. I think it was either Hynes or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on their feet with hands on the ball.

d) Last ruck of the game, Mils comes in from the side to clean out (pretty obvious it is from the side since he managed to push Coordingly off the ball). Right under the nose of Kaplan, and I have absolutely no idea how he didn't see it.

Having watched the game live as well Scotty I would say those comments are pretty much on the money.

Yes the reffing was crap and some guys had bad nights, but it was a great contest and spectacle. As others have said, with Barnes, Vickerman and Burgess out it was always going to be tough, so well done Wallabies for being in the contest until the end. At the end the better team on the night won.

Oh..and didn't realise how many kiwi's live over here! Definitely no home ground advantage for the Wallabies.

 

[Pfitzy]

Try going to Homebush for a game - there are even more of the black-shirted buggers in the crowd there!

 

[Sardyntjie]

Abs had the beating of the Wallabies.However this reffing issue is starting to spoil the rugby for me. The Abs were falling over the ball at every contact situation and Kaplan turned a blind eye.We really do need neutral refs for this competition , and probably the same ref for all the games so we know exactly where we stand.Otherwise its a lottery on the day.


Pity , Wallabies , you could have held on to take this.


Carter has been the heartbreaker twice now , probably man of the series.

 

[Scotty]

Think to blame Kaplan is a bit of a joke. Plain question is did he blow only one team of the park at the breakdowns and rucks? This area is as grey as ever. You cant blame a ref for mistakes but you can blame him for unconsistancy.

I didn't blame him for the Wallabies losing, I just thought his decisions, particularly at ruck and maul time when the AB's way. The reason we lost I already mentioned in point 2.

2. We lost the game after losing composure at 17-7 up. We let the game get a bit messy and the AB's managed to grab a try after a scrappy lead up, which gave them confidence and put them on track to come back at us

 

[Scotty]

Overall, I believe the 3N has been successful for the Wallabies. If you had said we'd be within 1 try of the 3N title, against a team that is clearly better on paper, at the start of the year, I think we'd have taken it.

 

[naza]

Overall, I believe the 3N has been successful for the Wallabies. If you had said we'd be within 1 try of the 3N title, against a team that is clearly better on paper, at the start of the year, I think we'd have taken it.

And I believe that if John Connolly or Eddie Jones were coaching this team, people would be calling for the coach's head on a platter.

 

[formeropenside]

Overall, I believe the 3N has been successful for the Wallabies. If you had said we'd be within 1 try of the 3N title, against a team that is clearly better on paper, at the start of the year, I think we'd have taken it.

And I believe that if John Connolly or Eddie Jones were coaching this team, people would be calling for the coach's head on a platter.

I agree with Naza, actually.