Wallabies v All Blacks, Game I

[waratahjesus]

i just want it in writing that i think robbie deans is overrated.
i say this again now so in two years when you all turn on him i can say i was first.

all blacks will win this and everyone will complain robbie doesnt have the personnel or he is rebuilding, as they will for the remainder of his contract. robbie deans has more excuses than eddie jones!

 

[Moses]

Is it surprising that Owen Franks made the bench? I hadn't even heard of him, and thought other props would be ahead... such as his brother Ben Franks.

 

[the gambler]

I'm reasonably comfortable with this team and the bench.

Deans can go with either Mumm or Pocock to replace Palu depending on the state of the lineout and breakdown up to that point. Of course if Horwill or Sharpe get injured before 60mins we might be a little short but happy to take that risk because I consider that less of a risk than playing Mowen, Chapman of Higgy.

 

[Lee Grant]

All Blacks

Like Moses I was surprised that Owen Franks made the 22 - even though he was on the bench against Italy. Am not surprised that Afoa was overlooked because he can be a lazy sod but I couldn't see why this Franks brother got precedence for a Bledisloe match.

I had to look him up to be honest: he's only 21 and didn't start in a Super14 game until Round 8 this year. I bet a lot of Kiwis are scratching their heads just as they would have for the selection of Bryn Evans in the lead up games. I had to look him up too then.

Franks is no doubt a project prop just as Alexander is for us if he has to go to THP - but a 21y.o. on a Bledisloe debut is a big call. Will be interesting to see which scrum does better if they both get on the park at the same time. Owen Franks is a specialist THP; so Tialata will switch to LHP if Woodcock gets hurt.

Since Sivi is back, Jane is the right choice ahead of Joe Rock, who had to be dropped to get some form in the ANZC. Jane was one of the few people who showed up to play when the Blacks lost to France in Dunedin - and on the wing. I first saw him at TG Milner 4 years ago playing for the Wellington Academy against the NSW Academy and I thought he was going places. He was easy to remember because his haircut was very Russell Faifax. I wonder if he or Dean Mumm remember that they played against each other that night.

Was a bit surprised that Donald was chosen ahead of Lucky Luke but both have played some crap rugby this year. And Eaton is back from the wilderness. Was not impressed by him in the S14 this year.

Oz

Am a bit surprised that Dingo has chosen 3 fetchers again and the only reason I can think of is what I have mentioned before. A recent law ruling has clarified that players who have their hands on the ball before a ruck is formed are allowed to continue with their work after it is formed.

Deans is seeing Bled I as a battle of the breakdown and testing if multi fetcher selection is justifiable at the highest level of rugby played under the fetcher ruling.

Palu starting is a bit of a gamble because he is like a tanker that takes a long time to turn around after a lay off. I know that he has played a couple of club matches, but that doesn't signify much.

I don't know if out players are good enough mentally to beat the All Blacks as they were in positions to beat them in Brisbane and Hong Kong last year and didn't have the belief which the All Blacks had. Our players are good enough if they can think well enough.

But what I do know is that if we can't beat them with McCaw and Rodney rusty for them and 2 flyhalves in poor form, a reserve prop who is a surprise selection and yarda, yarda - we can kiss goodbye to the Bledisloe again.

 

[Blue]

If the Wallabies can't win in Auckland this weekend, they never will.

It's going to be tough as all hell. Too many people writing off the All Blacks.

Tight game, Wallabies by 3 I reckon. This game could set them up for winning the whole thing as away victories will be like hen's teeth this year.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that. This is only Dean's second year and the second year of a major re build.
I am sure Robbie will have a close eye on Gitts and Mort's form. They should however lift again.

In saying that, I am quietly confident of a great showing.

At this point, what more building is required? It is a starting fifteen packed with experience.

You can no longer play the rebuild card.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Having cattle is one thing, how those cattle behave and their attitudes both socially and towards the game itself is an entirely different set of doctrines.
We have never been short of talented players. What has been missing for many years has been a mentality to go with the ability and an attitude towards the playing of the game to bring about the best result.
That is what Deans is rebuilding and you cannot do that in 2 years.

 

[Moses]

Well said LG, one correction though

Since Sivi is back, Jane is the right choice ahead of Joe Rock, who had to be dropped to get some form in the ANZC.

22. Josevata Rokocoko

 

[waratahjesus]

If the Wallabies can't win in Auckland this weekend, they never will.

It's going to be tough as all hell. Too many people writing off the All Blacks.

Tight game, Wallabies by 3 I reckon. This game could set them up for winning the whole thing as away victories will be like hen's teeth this year.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that. This is only Dean's second year and the second year of a major re build.
I am sure Robbie will have a close eye on Gitts and Mort's form. They should however lift again.

In saying that, I am quietly confident of a great showing.

At this point, what more building is required? It is a starting fifteen packed with experience.

You can no longer play the rebuild card.

australian rugby has proved we can play the rebuilding card for as long as we want, qld and the force have been doing it for 4 years now, will do it for another 10 to!

 

[Moses]

Any year in which you lose important games is a "rebuilding" year. Unfortunately for All Black fans they rebuild in world cup years

 

[fatprop]

We may "rebuild" but still not be good enough.

 

[Blue]

Having cattle is one thing, how those cattle behave and their attitudes both socially and towards the game itself is an entirely different set of doctrines.
We have never been short of talented players. What has been missing for many years has been a mentality to go with the ability and an attitude towards the playing of the game to bring about the best result.
That is what Deans is rebuilding and you cannot do that in 2 years.

Ok so how many? 3? 4?

Let's say it's 3. What happens in that third year that hasn't already happened in the first 2?

I don't buy it. It's not like Deans started with a squad with zero experience. Two years should be enough time to imprint a game plan.

 

[PaarlBok]

Pretty pathetic the way both TYS & TSF posters start to get excuses ready if their teams loose before the ball is even kick off. Rebuilding my arse, this is it, 3 Nation time, everyone is using rebuilding but shite their pants when it come to Snor or the Springbokke. Rebuilding is just a excuse for a loser in test rugby.

 

[Scorz]

PB, I won't give excuses. I'll give reasons.

1. No Dan Carter who is a great.
2. Stephen Donald, who will never be.

From 1-9 NZ are top notch. From 11 to 15 NZ are fantastic. Our bench looks sh!t hot too.

However, if the 10 can't put the two parts together, kick accurately around the park, or kick the goals, we are hamstrung from the beginning.

That's my reasons for having some doubt. I am just hoping Donald chooses this week to make me wear the Scorz Kak Hat after writing him off, and has the game from 'Nam.

 

[Cutter]

Having cattle is one thing, how those cattle behave and their attitudes both socially and towards the game itself is an entirely different set of doctrines.
We have never been short of talented players. What has been missing for many years has been a mentality to go with the ability and an attitude towards the playing of the game to bring about the best result.
That is what Deans is rebuilding and you cannot do that in 2 years.

Ok so how many? 3? 4?

Let's say it's 3. What happens in that third year that hasn't already happened in the first 2?

I don't buy it. It's not like Deans started with a squad with zero experience. Two years should be enough time to imprint a game plan.

Yep, you are right. We are gunna smoke you mofos like cuban cigars.

 

[the gambler]

Pretty pathetic the way both TYS & TSF posters start to get excuses ready if their teams loose before the ball is even kick off. Rebuilding my arse, this is it, 3 Nation time, everyone is using rebuilding but shite their pants when it come to Snor or the Springbokke. Rebuilding is just a excuse for a loser in test rugby.

Pretty pathetic to come ono a forum, where rugby issues are being discussed and debated and instead of ackowledging it as just that, you instead label it as excuses and pathetic.

I value your input PB but a comment like that is over the top.

People are allowed to comment on reasons why a match was lost or in this case may be lost, be it injuries, referees decisions, selections/tactics or individual player performances. The vast majority will accept whatever result occurs but that doesnt stop us being able to discuss the reasons in the appropriate forum (unlike the S.A Rugby team).That is why forums such as this exist, and to label it as pathetic is childish and arrogent.

 

[PaarlBok]

Pretty pathetic the way both TYS & TSF posters start to get excuses ready if their teams loose before the ball is even kick off. Rebuilding my arse, this is it, 3 Nation time, everyone is using rebuilding but shite their pants when it come to Snor or the Springbokke. Rebuilding is just a excuse for a loser in test rugby.

Pretty pathetic to come ono a forum, where rugby issues are being discussed and debated and instead of ackowledging it as just that, you instead label it as excuses and pathetic.

I value your input PB but a comment like that is over the top.

People are allowed to comment on reasons why a match was lost or in this case may be lost, be it injuries, referees decisions, selections/tactics or individual player performances. The vast majority will accept whatever result occurs but that doesnt stop us being able to discuss the reasons in the appropriate forum (unlike the S.A Rugby team).That is why forums such as this exist, and to label it as pathetic is childish and arrogent.

Oh shite sorry Gambler for being arrogant and pathetic and childish , I totally forgot Donald Duck May play good and the All Blacks will win. :nta:

 

[the gambler]

:nta:

If NZ's talk about Donald playing they are making excuses, but if they talk about winning with him they are dreaming?

What are you trying to say?

 

[PaarlBok]

I dont try to be funny or all those things you call me, way to much of a positive rugby supporter. Can understand after a loss WHY but the MAY one falls in the Donald catagory because you not that sure which Donald will run on the field but then it can be like that for any player.

 

[the gambler]

But you said people are being pathetic if they talk about rebuilding and that they are making excuses if they do.

I think Australia is developing (others may call this rebuilding). I also think Australia may well lose to S.A this year and if we do it will hurt, because losing any match hurts. However I am not shitting myself about playing S.A.

I am also not making excuses by saying we will be a better side next year. If S.A beats us this year it will be because they are a better side, and Ill take my hat off to them if they do.

 

[Gagger]

I'd say we're no longer re-building, but are still building.

No longer re-building because even under Connolly we were progressing both in terms of win % and Foley with the pack. That's two years of progress.

Still building though because of the youth and ideas still coming into the squad. I can't see us maintaining until after 2011

This could be splitting hairs (not a bad thing to do mind ) but the upshot for me is that it's no more excuses on Saturday and an answer to "are we where we think we are".