Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Simmons continued selection requires an ICAC investigation
Wallabies squad for Ireland series
- Thread starter Brumby Jack
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I do wonder what is "missing" in the planning
The Tahs have a back row laden with umpa lumpas yet their lineout has been effective in attack and defence all season with only two jumpers
We will run with three effective jumping locks so we should have two effective first choice options for the 80 minutes
I have a sneaky feeling that the hooker choice maybe critical. Latu has a history of average throwing and he could be a factor
He turned around the Tahs lineout from horrible to a strength (I was a skeptic, but the evidence is pretty undeniable), he is the best set piece lock we have
Zero_Cool
Arch Winning (36)
Settle down, were not talking about Dean Mumm! Simmons has been going okay, he's no worse than Hanigan.
dru
David Wilson (68)
I think all three locks (pretty much whichever are chosen) can be relied on.
BPA has been (mostly) OK with the throw. Thinking it through, the Irish may not kick for the line much. They have a reputation for holding possession - or tall box with chasers looking for dropped ball.
We will want what possession is available though - and this includes our set piece. Pocock (or Samu/Timu) can take a long throw, Hooper can be used as a back up jumper.
Still leaves me concerned, but maybe something.
Zero_Cool
Arch Winning (36)
Maybe the best lineout lock, I'm quite sure he does nothing in the scrum, too often his side goes backwards, very fast!
Rodda and Coleman give infinitely more go forward in the scrum and aren't much worse in the lineout.
Up the Guts
Steve Williams (59)
I'm not the greatest expert on scrums but I have heard that Simmons is actually a very good scrummager.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
There was that one time Folau did a quick throw on our own line. That was brillo.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I've heard this too.
As expected you took the Simmons (and Holloway) bait for yet another whine about him, and missed the point about "needing"3 jumpers necessarily.
Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
He is much better than Hanigan
The Waratahs currently have the second most successful lineout in Super Rugby. I'm pretty happy to put a lot of that improvement down to the recruitment of Rob Simmons. The other is Damien Fitzpatrick's consistency throwing. His accuracy is great.
Clearly the Wallabies are likely to go into this series with the lineout being a potential weakness because we don't have a strong jumper in our backrow.
How much that will impact the team is impossible to know at this point. A lineout is clearly more than just having good jumpers. The accuracy of the hooker and the quality of the calling plays a huge role.
There have been times in the past when the Wallabies have had 3 or 4 good jumpers and the lineout has sucked and times when we've had 2 good jumpers and it has gone well.
Going into the game with less good jumpers means we need a clear plan of how we're going to handle our lineout throws, what numbers we are going to use in different parts of the field and how we change things if Ireland starts putting our lineout under lots of pressure.
Clearly the Wallabies are likely to go into this series with the lineout being a potential weakness because we don't have a strong jumper in our backrow.
How much that will impact the team is impossible to know at this point. A lineout is clearly more than just having good jumpers. The accuracy of the hooker and the quality of the calling plays a huge role.
There have been times in the past when the Wallabies have had 3 or 4 good jumpers and the lineout has sucked and times when we've had 2 good jumpers and it has gone well.
Going into the game with less good jumpers means we need a clear plan of how we're going to handle our lineout throws, what numbers we are going to use in different parts of the field and how we change things if Ireland starts putting our lineout under lots of pressure.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
I was quite aware that you were fishing Cyclo, but the issue regarding Simmons is becoming (no, has been) serious and needs to be called out at every opportunity.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
It doesn't seem like that much of an issue. What you lose around the park by selecting a set-piece specialist in the second row, you gain in the back-row by selecting a dynamic 6.
True, Simmons is a quality lineout technician, but if you watch the tapes of Hanigan's work at 2 this season, it has been excellent
He has the ability to get up fast at 2 on defensive lineouts, that is something that every team hates - it is high level disruption
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
For those who didn't see them, Mica posted the Foxsports stats/game for Locks on the front page a few days ago.
Make for very interesting reading.
Simmons : 3.7 runs; 14 run metres; 3.2 Lineouts won; 0.3 Lineouts pilfered; 0.2 tackle busts.
Rodda: 6.6 runs; 29 rm; 3.2 Lo won; 0.3 Lo pilfered; 0.8 TB.
Arnold : 5.8 runs; 36 rm; 3.7 Lo won; 0.1 Lo pilfered; 0.4 tb.
Coleman : 4.2 runs; 21 rm; 1 Lo won; 0.6 Lo pilfered; 0.6 tb.
Philip : 6.2 runs; 32 rm; 2.3 Lo won; 0.3 Lo pilfered; 1.2 tb.
Carter : 5.7 runs; 23 rm; 3.7 Lo won; 0.1 Lo pilfered; 0.4 tb.
Interestingly, Simmons doesn't rate at the top of any stat, but is right on the bottom for three of them. My summary is that he is lazy and ineffective in general play and offers no advantage over others at the lineout. From my observations of recent games, the TH side of the Tahs' scrum is weaker than the LH side. Is that because Kepu is not as good as some think, or that Simmons doesn't offer the push behind Kepu? For those who time after time say that some Aus props rate Simmons as best in scrums, please supply names of same props for verification.
Make for very interesting reading.
Simmons : 3.7 runs; 14 run metres; 3.2 Lineouts won; 0.3 Lineouts pilfered; 0.2 tackle busts.
Rodda: 6.6 runs; 29 rm; 3.2 Lo won; 0.3 Lo pilfered; 0.8 TB.
Arnold : 5.8 runs; 36 rm; 3.7 Lo won; 0.1 Lo pilfered; 0.4 tb.
Coleman : 4.2 runs; 21 rm; 1 Lo won; 0.6 Lo pilfered; 0.6 tb.
Philip : 6.2 runs; 32 rm; 2.3 Lo won; 0.3 Lo pilfered; 1.2 tb.
Carter : 5.7 runs; 23 rm; 3.7 Lo won; 0.1 Lo pilfered; 0.4 tb.
Interestingly, Simmons doesn't rate at the top of any stat, but is right on the bottom for three of them. My summary is that he is lazy and ineffective in general play and offers no advantage over others at the lineout. From my observations of recent games, the TH side of the Tahs' scrum is weaker than the LH side. Is that because Kepu is not as good as some think, or that Simmons doesn't offer the push behind Kepu? For those who time after time say that some Aus props rate Simmons as best in scrums, please supply names of same props for verification.
Individual lineout stats are junk stats, by and large.
As the lineout caller, Simmons goal is for the Tahs to win the lineout - it doesn't matter which player. So if he is marked by the opposition, he will call another player/move.
Citing that stat as evidence that he's less effective at the lineout is rubbish. Same with the 'pilfered' stat - you're more likely to pilfer a lineout jumping at 2, and that role at the Tahs is generally filled by Wells or Hanigan.
I'm no massive Simmons fan, and I agree he has his limitations. But suggesting he's an inneffective lineout operator using those stats is a flawed conclusion IMO.
The overall team performance is the far better metric, and that is where the Tahs are clearly a standout.
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As the lineout caller, Simmons goal is for the Tahs to win the lineout - it doesn't matter which player. So if he is marked by the opposition, he will call another player/move.
Citing that stat as evidence that he's less effective at the lineout is rubbish. Same with the 'pilfered' stat - you're more likely to pilfer a lineout jumping at 2, and that role at the Tahs is generally filled by Wells or Hanigan.
I'm no massive Simmons fan, and I agree he has his limitations. But suggesting he's an inneffective lineout operator using those stats is a flawed conclusion IMO.
The overall team performance is the far better metric, and that is where the Tahs are clearly a standout.
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Up the Guts
Steve Williams (59)
Did he post stats for defence as well? I would be interested to see where Simmons rates defensively before I say he is lazy around the park.
It's a bit rich to infer that reports from players regarding his scrummaging are false unless verified with names, yet carry on like "your eye" is an unbiased beacon of measurement with regards to the scrummaging ability of the THP or lock you're questioning. The thing regarding Simmons was reported by several posters close to players at the Reds and Wallabies, and not by posters who were championing Simmons at all in other regards. It's as likely to be true and any inference on these pages.
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