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Wallabies Ratings Post Samoa 2011

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mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
Had a good view of the proceedings, no sun and no tears or dust.. The Samoans were intense from the start and their defence outstanding... After their second try they knew they were a chance up set and you cold see it in the eyes. They’ve just completed some strong performances in the Pacific nation’s cup and have clearly built continuity and a solid defence.

I'll give you the honest truth...form the sideline...

Wallabies rookie scrum half Phipps was smashed all day as his second row and loosies didn't show up to cover him. This developed into pressure, poor passing and mishandling behind the maul. His pass was slow and arched putting those outside him under pressure. He didn’t box kick or throw any long or short inside passes which made his game easy to read by the Samoans, one dimensional play you could say, need to bring more to your game at this level.

Forwards review: Kepu scrum was good but in general play wasn’t seen. Alexander work got a pass mark only, Moore was the best of the front row in defence and work with the ball. Sharpie just looked slow often not seen and waited in the midfield channels and he didn't get to the breakdown fast enough. Vickerman made some difference when he came on but he was playing fresh against 60 minute opposition players so its hard to say what he has got to offer. But at one point stepped in to push a Samoan player of fellow forward, it was good to see the hardman is still in him and hasn't softened during Cambridge studies.. oh and The Samoan player retreated quickly. Timani didn't do enough work at the breakdown and was targeted by the Samoans. Something person there as it was his first wallabies test and perhaps because he now he can't play for his island birth place? The Wallabies loosies were poor this included captain Elsom and Hodgo. McCalamn didn't make mistakes but also didn't make an impact as a No.8. Beau Robinson got involved late but lost the ball several times when the Wallabies were pushing into the oppositions half. Higginbotham was good but too late to change the result.

Backs: Giteau’s positional play was solid, passing & kicking sharp and defence good. He spent a lot of the afternoon in cover defence doing the work of others. McCabe and Digby all did there work well, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had somewhat low profile game again and didn’t add anything extra, and Phipps and Davies gave up several tries to the Samoans. Gerard like Giteau spent his time covering others mistakes and didn't get an opportunity to get into the match. Giteau was rewarded with a late try supporting right until the end.

All the Samoan tries were scored off Wallabies mistakes mainly either on Davies wing or by youngest Phipps. Both created two weak channels for the Samoans to put pressure. Matches stats would be interesting.

The Samoan team were often off side and not penalised, lucky them, they ran a creeping flat rush defence which saw guys like Timani choke and spill the ball in the backs on numerous occasions and Phipps panic pass. Giteau kicked well for positional play when able however was made to cover tackle for those who failed to mark their man in the line. He if didn’t it the Wallabies would have lost by way more.

Genia and Beale helped and looked good against match weary 65 minute players but didn’t link with the players who were already on the field.

Personally I think Deans wanted no injuries to his main squad, or risk them. I’m little suspicious about JOCs late hamstring injury. The wing he would have played against was the size of Lomu.

Deans left them out there to swing even though it was clear in some positions it just wasn't working. With no Australia A its difficult for the coaches to give guys a taste of international rugby without throwing them into the deep end like Sunday.

All as I saw it... next match please... move on, the new lads will learn...
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
He was yes, but so was Sam Wykes and Hugh Pyle. Wykes in particular should have been named.

Not that any of them would of made a difference. Tonga would be annoyed

It is also tiring when people write off débutantes after one game. Timani wasn't the first, won't be the last, and is very far from the worst test débutante ever. Giteau's and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s debuts were both terrible. Give Timani a chance. He is an Australian and chose to be a Wallaby. He still has as much potential now as he did before the game. If you all feel so strongly about Tonga, support them instead.
 
H

H...

Guest
I would more than happily play higgers at 12, regardless of who's at 13.
 

Swat

Chilla Wilson (44)
Not intentionally fishing here, but the case for Higginbotham at 13 is gaining credibility in my eyes... ;)

What about Higgers as a crash-ball 12 with JO'C at 13? I know this sounds a little weird but hear me out.

My thinking is based around the pivotal concept of giteau no longer being up to scratch, he was great, not anymore and him being dropped from the run-on side at least.

1. We know Higger's fast enough (already he's bigger and faster than other crash ball centres - Mortlock, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - didn't see much distribution at all yesterday, A Finger - not sure about pace here)
2. He does have some skills with the boot - recently has put in a few grubbers and the chip kick on the w/e for Gits try, plus he used to play soccer as a kid or some other rubbish statement used by commentators to justify a forward showing some skill.
3. As much as I love our little backs, we need someone with (the potential for) more impact in both defence and attack - QC (Quade Cooper) will have to defend in the front line as Kurtley is too good on the counter attack from fullback. So who would you rather have around him when SBW and Smith and Nonu are charging at you (NB: I also have an interesting idea about the ABs having SB on the wing - now more possible with Jane out so those three beasts running at quade at one time is leaning from possible to probable) and if not them then some other giant backs from england or south africa? I'm not going to say that I'd rather have Higgers over gits, barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), a finger, mccabe yet but at the very least his defence will be dependable, most likely more. So what about attack? I think we actually gain rather than lose attacking options with Higgers at 12 and JO'C at 13. We lose the giteau moment of magic freak individual try or set up (does he offer more than that over a finger? seriously? and I'm seeing those moment less and less, plus it's not like we're using him for his goal kicking) but we gain a lot more. We add strength, size and (potential) penetration to our backline, we lose a bit of size at 13. What we would get is an unprecedented amount of width with 2 genuine 5/8s, with crazy footwork playing with a backline with some of the best ball runners in the sport. Imagine what you could do! Sanchez long ball from the back of the scrum to cooper, cooper tweets, steps cutout pass to JO'C at pace with Higgers, Digby, Beale and Mitchell/Davies all running hard angles off his shoulder or out wide! Seriously! That would scare the fuck out of any defence in the world. So we lose a bit of size out OC, gain some at IC, lose some skills at 12, gain more skills and pace at 13, gain passing width (and an outside centre with more than just the option of trying the step and fend).

All in all, I think there is an overall net gain in size, speed and skill of our backline plus bigger hits! everyone likes big tits! ...umm hits..

I'm also not going to say that I'd still try this if Horne was fit for longer than a day, what I will say though is that if you are going to experiment with the team for these 'minnow' teams Dingo, at least make it changes with exciting potential and possibilities rather than blood someone not ready for the jersey.


Your thoughts?
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Had a good view of the proceedings, no sun and no tears or dust.. The Samoans were intense from the start and their defence outstanding... After their second try they knew they were a chance up set and you cold see it in the eyes. They’ve just completed some strong performances in the Pacific nation’s cup and have clearly built continuity and a solid defence.

I'll give you the honest truth...form the sideline...

Wallabies rookie scrum half Phipps was smashed all day as his second row and loosies didn't show up to cover him. This developed into pressure, poor passing and mishandling behind the maul. His pass was slow and arched putting those outside him under pressure. He didn’t box kick or throw any long or short inside passes which made his game easy to read by the Samoans, one dimensional play you could say, need to bring more to your game at this level.

Forwards review: Kepu scrum was good but in general play wasn’t seen. Alexander work got a pass mark only, Moore was the best of the front row in defence and work with the ball. Sharpie just looked slow often not seen and waited in the midfield channels and he didn't get to the breakdown fast enough. Vickerman made some difference when he came on but he was playing fresh against 60 minute opposition players so its hard to say what he has got to offer. But at one point stepped in to push a Samoan player of fellow forward, it was good to see the hardman is still in him and hasn't softened during Cambridge studies.. oh and The Samoan player retreated quickly. Timani didn't do enough work at the breakdown and was targeted by the Samoans. Something person there as it was his first wallabies test and perhaps because he now he can't play for his island birth place? The Wallabies loosies were poor this included captain Elsom and Hodgo. McCalamn didn't make mistakes but also didn't make an impact as a No.8. Beau Robinson got involved late but lost the ball several times when the Wallabies were pushing into the oppositions half. Higginbotham was good but too late to change the result.

Backs: Giteau’s positional play was solid, passing & kicking sharp and defence good. He spent a lot of the afternoon in cover defence doing the work of others. McCabe and Digby all did there work well, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had somewhat low profile game again and didn’t add anything extra, and Phipps and Davies gave up several tries to the Samoans. Gerard like Giteau spent his time covering others mistakes and didn't get an opportunity to get into the match. Giteau was rewarded with a late try supporting right until the end.

All the Samoan tries were scored off Wallabies mistakes mainly either on Davies wing or by youngest Phipps. Both created two weak channels for the Samoans to put pressure. Matches stats would be interesting.

The Samoan team were often off side and not penalised, lucky them, they ran a creeping flat rush defence which saw guys like Timani choke and spill the ball in the backs on numerous occasions and Phipps panic pass. Giteau kicked well for positional play when able however was made to cover tackle for those who failed to mark their man in the line. He if didn’t it the Wallabies would have lost by way more.

Genia and Beale helped and looked good against match weary 65 minute players but didn’t link with the players who were already on the field.

Personally I think Deans wanted no injuries to his main squad, or risk them. I’m little suspicious about JOCs late hamstring injury. The wing he would have played against was the size of Lomu.

Deans left them out there to swing even though it was clear in some positions it just wasn't working. With no Australia A its difficult for the coaches to give guys a taste of international rugby without throwing them into the deep end like Sunday.

All as I saw it... next match please... move on, the new lads will learn...


Nice write up Mudskipper... I pretty much agree with all of that.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
So you can't suggest a player who had nothing but positive impact in all the games he has played this year because he plays for the team you support? There is nothing wrong with the suggestion of AWH and your suggestion of fishing is somewhat dilusional.

Hint, hint, the petty little snipes at Fainga'a are also getting tiring. One dimensional or not, both him and McCabe are bloody good players.

Supporting Adam Wallace-Harrison for the Wallabies? Really? Because if you are serious that is even worse. Yes he has had a positive impact but for Christ's sake he is a bench lock. You could say the same about Tom Hockings at the Force. If he seriously shone in the few minutes he got then I could sort of understand (like say James Hanson), but the guy did the basics well and nothing else.

As for supposed snipes at Fainga'a, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I was not making a judgement on the two players, merely asking a question of those posters who thought McCabe was one-dimensional. My question was if they thought McCabe was one-dimensional, then who would be the other 12 as surely by the logic of McCabe being one-dimensional (which I don't necessarily agree with) then Fainga'a is equally one dimensional. I hope that clears things up a bit.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Please no more x forward should be in the backs, or y back should be in the forwards. There's no way, without a season or more of rugby under their belt, that they could adjust to the defensive and technical requirements of the positions. Plus Higgers is a blindside, and just doesn't have the ball skills or skillset for a 12 or 13. If he did, he would be playing there.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Please no more x forward should be in the backs, or y back should be in the forwards. There's no way, without a season or more of rugby under their belt, that they could adjust to the defensive and technical requirements of the positions. Plus Higgers is a blindside, and just doesn't have the ball skills or skillset for a 12 or 13. If he did, he would be playing there.

Exactly, he's clearly a winger...

*boom tish*
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Ruggo, it wasn't just the AWH comment. This thread is littler with provincial allegiances trumping form and good sense.

Rivalries are great fun during the Super season, but can't we qt least try to be more objective about players now that they will be wearing the Green & Gold?
 
H

H...

Guest
Please no more x forward should be in the backs, or y back should be in the forwards. There's no way, without a season or more of rugby under their belt, that they could adjust to the defensive and technical requirements of the positions. Plus Higgers is a blindside, and just doesn't have the ball skills or skillset for a 12 or 13. If he did, he would be playing there.

I would rather someone lacking in ball skills (though his sideline offload yesterday suggested otherwise) than someone completely inept at taking the ball forwards in absolutely every circumstances.

I will be sure to remember than Gits can juggle 3 balls with his old fella when he's running parallel to the try line during the match.
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
It is also tiring when people write off débutantes after one game. Timani wasn't the first, won't be the last, and is very far from the worst test débutante ever. Giteau's and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s debuts were both terrible. Give Timani a chance. He is an Australian and chose to be a Wallaby. He still has as much potential now as he did before the game. If you all feel so strongly about Tonga, support them instead.

Definatly need to read the comments before better mate.
I wasn't writing him off for the game, I was for his selection in the squad because I thought the two I mentioned had better seasons (in my opinion).

And feel so strongly about Tonga? Really? Once again read it properlly. I was incuinuating they would be annoyed because Timani probably won't make the WC squad, and THEY would love to have had him.
 

Swat

Chilla Wilson (44)
Quality panic. So good, in fact, we should save for when things get really bad.

Haha, so true, in the end I'm glad i'm not the Coach - I'd be making changes after the haka based upon who I thought took it well. Why not? They make out of the box last minute changes in all those underdog sporting movies and they always work out. Seriously people, have we not learnt a thing from the movies?
 
P

pete88

Guest
I'd love a little more detail about this fan day they had mere hours before kickoff. Were matchday 22 players or particularly relevant staff involved? Could we have disrespected the fixture any more than we did? I'm fine with picking a B-team and motivating it properly, but everything we did up until we went 3 scores behind indicated we thought it would be a pushover, which shows disrespect, stupidity, an inability to check Samoa's history and would have pulled down just about everyone's performance. I think Deans is a decent coach, but he has to carry the can here. Worth remembering this stuff when discussing who is never to be picked again etc. etc.
 

Iluvmyfooty

Phil Hardcastle (33)
What about Higgers as a crash-ball 12 with JO'C at 13? I know this sounds a little weird but hear me out.

My thinking is based around the pivotal concept of giteau no longer being up to scratch, he was great, not anymore and him being dropped from the run-on side at least.

1. We know Higger's fast enough (already he's bigger and faster than other crash ball centres - Mortlock, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - didn't see much distribution at all yesterday, A Finger - not sure about pace here)
2. He does have some skills with the boot - recently has put in a few grubbers and the chip kick on the w/e for Gits try, plus he used to play soccer as a kid or some other rubbish statement used by commentators to justify a forward showing some skill.
3. As much as I love our little backs, we need someone with (the potential for) more impact in both defence and attack - QC (Quade Cooper) will have to defend in the front line as Kurtley is too good on the counter attack from fullback. So who would you rather have around him when SBW and Smith and Nonu are charging at you (NB: I also have an interesting idea about the ABs having SB on the wing - now more possible with Jane out so those three beasts running at quade at one time is leaning from possible to probable) and if not them then some other giant backs from england or south africa? I'm not going to say that I'd rather have Higgers over gits, barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), a finger, mccabe yet but at the very least his defence will be dependable, most likely more. So what about attack? I think we actually gain rather than lose attacking options with Higgers at 12 and JO'C at 13. We lose the giteau moment of magic freak individual try or set up (does he offer more than that over a finger? seriously? and I'm seeing those moment less and less, plus it's not like we're using him for his goal kicking) but we gain a lot more. We add strength, size and (potential) penetration to our backline, we lose a bit of size at 13. What we would get is an unprecedented amount of width with 2 genuine 5/8s, with crazy footwork playing with a backline with some of the best ball runners in the sport. Imagine what you could do! Sanchez long ball from the back of the scrum to cooper, cooper tweets, steps cutout pass to JO'C at pace with Higgers, Digby, Beale and Mitchell/Davies all running hard angles off his shoulder or out wide! Seriously! That would scare the fuck out of any defence in the world. So we lose a bit of size out OC, gain some at IC, lose some skills at 12, gain more skills and pace at 13, gain passing width (and an outside centre with more than just the option of trying the step and fend).

All in all, I think there is an overall net gain in size, speed and skill of our backline plus bigger hits! everyone likes big tits! ...umm hits..

I'm also not going to say that I'd still try this if Horne was fit for longer than a day, what I will say though is that if you are going to experiment with the team for these 'minnow' teams Dingo, at least make it changes with exciting potential and possibilities rather than blood someone not ready for the jersey.


Your thoughts?


:lmao::lmao::lmao:
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I'd love a little more detail about this fan day they had mere hours before kickoff. Were matchday 22 players or particularly relevant staff involved? Could we have disrespected the fixture any more than we did? I'm fine with picking a B-team and motivating it properly, but everything we did up until we went 3 scores behind indicated we thought it would be a pushover, which shows disrespect, stupidity, an inability to check Samoa's history and would have pulled down just about everyone's performance. I think Deans is a decent coach, but he has to carry the can here. Worth remembering this stuff when discussing who is never to be picked again etc. etc.

Pretty sure it was just squad players not playing.
 
T

TheNextBigThing

Guest
Pretty sure it was just squad players not playing.

It was possibly the most adroitly scheduled fan day the ARU has ever held. The biggest drawcards in the Wallaby squad for these kinds of things (Quade, JOC (James O'Connor), TPN) were all having a rest. Apparently it went down a storm. One of the few positives from Sunday.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
It was possibly the most adroitly scheduled fan day the ARU has ever held. The biggest drawcards in the Wallaby squad for these kinds of things (Quade, JOC (James O'Connor), TPN) were all having a rest. Apparently it went down a storm. One of the few positives from Sunday.

Agree with this. Went to the game with a couple of young families -- loved having all the kids around, lots of fun and good vibe. Heard that the family day was good -- if you could fight through the Blackberry merch -- but that the lines were long to meet the players.... Which means the family angle was a success!
 
P

pete88

Guest
Well that's something. I had visions of recent Ashes clusterfucks when players have been having commitments the night before crucial test matches, or even on the morning of the games. Still not totally sure if it was handled right, its another little subtle message to the players on both sides (I notice the Samoans are being quoted this week saying they were offended and motivated by the Wallaby disrespect, and good on 'em) that this game wasn't exactly being played for sheep stations by our boys. I guarantee the Springbok 2nd XV we are facing on Saturday will be more switched on than we were yesterday.
 
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