Wallabies front row

[Blue]

I'd play:

Slipper
Fiainga
Weeks/Daly

With TPN and Daly/Weeks on the bench.

Daly is good around the field and weeks deserves a shot, he cant be worse than what we've got. As for young slipper, thought the scrum was better with him in it. I'd also move Chisolm into the starting team and chuck Douglas on the bench, at the expense of Mumm. They would add a bit more strength and stability to the tight 5.

Daley is physically not strong enough to play test rugby. He got outmuscled, and we don't even have to start talking about technique.

If you can't take the hit, and you don't have enough upper body power to stay upright, it's lights out.

To think he can play test rugby agaun in the short term is beyond ridiculous.

I also think the two locks are oo much of the same thing. There is a need for a lock who is more physical in set pieces. Mumm and Sharpe are great in their own rights but not a balanced lock pairing.

And finally, someone tell Brown to keep his head in until afetr the ball goes in. Every little bit helps.

 

[naza]

Daley is physically not strong enough to play test rugby. He got outmuscled, and we don't even have to start talking about technique.

If you can't take the hit, and you don't have enough upper body power to stay upright, it's lights out.

To think he can play test rugby agaun in the short term is beyond ridiculous.

Growden's article today indicates they''ll dump Ma'afu but stick with Daley. Growden's selection sources are usually pretty good.

James Slipper is in line to be the new tight-head prop, after excelling in his 15 minutes off the bench in his Test debut when the 21-year-old played on both sides of the scrum. The Wallabies are expected to persevere with Ben Daley at loose-head.

Laurie Weeks is another option at tight-head, but his selection will depend on how he plays for the Barbarians. Ma'afu may end up being the only front-row casualty.

Deans also hinted that Slipper may be headed for a rapid elevation.

''He's built for it,' the coach said of the Queensland prop. ''He's made for it. He's 'earthed', and like Ben, is going to be a fast learner.''

I'm not sure what being "earthed" means. Must be a Kiwi thing.

Its troubling that they could watch that game and think Daley could possibly turn things around in a week.

 

[#1 Tah]

1. Tilse
2. TPN
3. Baxter

17. Slipper.

I think it is also time to move Mummsey to 6 and rocky to 8, with Douglas Coming in.

 

[Lindommer]

Some of us with long memories might remember the pasting the Pumas gave us in the first test in 1983, at Ballymore with Topo (not topo) playing for the other side. Put simply they reamed us in the scrum, as the Poms did last Saturday. But the Pumas had some ability outside the pigs and beat us soundly 18-3. Dwyer and his sidekicks did some adjusting in the forwards (Meadows, a renowned scrummager came in for Curran) together with a shitload of remedial work. One (sneaky) thing Dwyer did was insist on longer sprigs for the forwards, before the days of compulsory pre-match examinations by the ref. Anyway, it all worked and Australia won the return fixture in Sydney 29-13. That was Topo's last test for the Argies.

Back to more pressing matters: I'm NOT that downhearted about the Wallabies' front-row performance last week. These three young blokes never gave up, even when they could've shirked it and gone for uncontested scrums towards the end. Once or twice I felt they were matching the Poms. It 's been mentioned elsewhere the five (experienced) blokes behind the three pups didn't perform as well as they could in the scrums and I wholeheartedly agree. And I also agree the THP couldn't keep up the whole side when unbearable pressure caused the LHP to crumble. It's important for Daley's, Fainga'a's and Ma'afu's development they get another opportunity up against this Pommy pack, I'd pick them for the test in Sydney. But there must be a mountain of work done this week, especially helping Daley counter any complicated engagements or pressure coming on his side. I'd also put Chisholm at 4, Mumm at 6 and Elsom at 8. This would bolster our pack by 12kg while adding some height to our back row. Those at 6, 7 and 8 should be sternly advised any meerkat impersonations at scrumtime will result in summary execution.

 

[Scotty]

I'm not sure what being "earthed" means. Must be a Kiwi thing.

Its troubling that they could watch that game and think Daley could possibly turn things around in a week.

Even if he does improve in a week, he will still be penalised for most scrum issues by the ref, who will be making the assumption that the England front row don't do anything wrong.

 

[daz]

Those at 6, 7 and 8 should be sternly advised any meerkat impersonations at scrumtime will result in summary execution.

Christ, aren't we having trouble with depth as it is?

While I agree in principle, that might be considered outside the spirit of the game....

 

[Crashball]

Start:-

Daley 1
Fainga 2
Slipper 3

Someone tell Daley to cut his left sleeve off at the shoulder, take a long bind and lift his sight line.

Cowan and Ma'afu on the bench to come on mid-way through the second half. We know what Al Baxter can do so giving him test minutes isn't going to help us build depth.

 

[Scarfman]

Users browsing this thread: Scarfman, Bruce Ross, topo.

Fuck me, I'm well out of my depth here. I'd better go off to the thread where we debate the reserve outside back.

 

[topo]

I agree that Daley and S Finger should get another go. I think Daley will struggle again but I like his pluck and his work around the park. I'd put Laurie Weeks at THP. Restore the tripod. Laurie got some bad press after the BBs game, but he only really got into trouble when he went to LHP, a side he never plays.
BTW, what has happened to Kepu (not that I think he would rescue this mess), he was supposed to be out for 4 weeks with a calf strain and that was about 8 weeks ago.

 

[topo]

Users browsing this thread: Scarfman, Bruce Ross, topo.

Fuck me, I'm well out of my depth here. I'd better go off to the thread where we debate the reserve outside back.

Now where's that agree button when you need it???

 

[Viking]

What ever happend to Kepu? He did well last year when he replaced an injured Robinson verse england i believe. Plus he's prob one of our biggest props, and everyone loves a big prop.

 

[TheRiddler]

What ever happend to Kepu? He did well last year when he replaced an injured Robinson verse england i believe. Plus he's prob one of our biggest props, and everyone loves a big prop.

Are we forgetting the simple fact that Kepu does for propping what Nadalo does for wing play? Full of size, promise and potential at club level but elevated anywhere above that proves to be a massive case of hype and hot air substantiated by the best part of bugger all?

 

[TOCC]

one thing that strikes me, i understand that Deans is reluctant to return to Dunning or Baxter, but they are after all ARU contracted and IMO they should be brought into the squad to provide mentoring for the younger guys.

At the moment, they are all young guys with no elder statesmen to provide a few tips and hints, Baxter and Dunning might not be international scrummaging superstars, but they have been around long enough to learn a thing or two, probably a few vital points which could rub off on there younger brethren.

 

[Scarfman]

Stop talking sense TOCC and start talking Robbie.

"It is fair to say our group will be a lot better for the experience.
"I thought the front row did pretty well considering what was asked of them physically and the courage they had to show.
"Given they were on the receiving end at scrum time they didn't go into their shells. They kept coming physically in defence and they had the courage to play when they had the opportunity.

 

[fatprop]

one thing that strikes me, i understand that Deans is reluctant to return to Dunning or Baxter, but they are after all ARU contracted and IMO they should be brought into the squad to provide mentoring for the younger guys.

At the moment, they are all young guys with no elder statesmen to provide a few tips and hints, Baxter and Dunning might not be international scrummaging superstars, but they have been around long enough to learn a thing or two, probably a few vital points which could rub off on there younger brethren.

Yeah, it may have been preferable for those two being smacked than start kids with a smacking

 

[Moses]

one thing that strikes me, i understand that Deans is reluctant to return to Dunning or Baxter, but they are after all ARU contracted and IMO they should be brought into the squad to provide mentoring for the younger guys.

At the moment, they are all young guys with no elder statesmen to provide a few tips and hints, Baxter and Dunning might not be international scrummaging superstars, but they have been around long enough to learn a thing or two, probably a few vital points which could rub off on there younger brethren.

Well said, I'm all for blooding new front rowers, but not three at a time. Stick Fainga'a in between Australia's most capped prop and Greg Holmes to let him learn the dark arts without having his head shoved up his arse.

I really disagree with starting debut props if it can be avoided. Put them on the bench and send 'em out once the sting is out of the opponents scrum. Give the kids a chance for farks sake. The stigma of being pantsed by the Poms tends to stick around for a front rowers career, hardly a great start for our future props.

 

[gone]

I agree that Daley and S Finger should get another go. I think Daley will struggle again but I like his pluck and his work around the park. I'd put Laurie Weeks at THP. Restore the tripod. Laurie got some bad press after the BBs game, but he only really got into trouble when he went to LHP, a side he never plays.
BTW, what has happened to Kepu (not that I think he would rescue this mess), he was supposed to be out for 4 weeks with a calf strain and that was about 8 weeks ago.

Hey Topo, I've just got this quote from you off the other thread because I agree with it completely but having read it am surprised by your selections above.

The trouble with THP is that when the LHP and the hooker get fractured (as they were all night last night), you get the whole pressure of the scrum on you. You can either try desperately to bring it to ground or get snow on your arse. Ma'afu took both options at times last night. Daley was the one who was really smashed as his opposing prop did whatever he liked with him. Sometimes took him down, sometimes kept him up and drove through him. If you've got a wiley big hooker he can help you out in that situation sometimes, but it wasn't the case last night. Daley needs to go back to school. I think he will be a good prop one day, but he's got some learning to do. Fortunately I suspect that he is tough enough to take last night in his stride and work harder to get bigger and better. So, who to play? It can't come out of the current squad. You either go with what you had last night (+/- promote Slipper to start at LHP) or go the Weeks/Finger/Cowan option that didn't work against the BBs. I'd bring in Greg Holmes at LHP and Weeks at THP (Fuse should be there but Deans just won't do it) and leave Finger at hooker. Slipper on the bench.

That's exactly what I saw on Saturday too - the main problems were 1 and 2, Ma'afu was left high and dry and didn't have many options. Because of that I would be willing to give him another shot. I thought Ma'afu's scrummaging in the Super 14 was pretty good but it would have been a lot easier with a front row containing Alexander and Moore. TPN coming back in at hooker would make a huge difference and for loosehead, bugger me without Robinson and Alexander the cupboard is pretty bare.

 

[#1 Tah]

1. TPN
2. Fainga'a
3. Baxter

One can dream....

 

[TOCC]

call me crazy, but lets assume that Moore and Fainga'a are of equal scrummaging prowess... Do you return to Moore when he is fit again or stick with Fainga'a, undoubtedly TPN is better then both, however its my opinion that Fainga'a offers more around the field(especially in defence).

 

[Langthorne]

As requested: TOCC, you are crazy.

Fainga'a is 3rd choice by some distance. If either TPN or Moore are available he drops down the list to the bench or out altogether if they are both available.

He has done very well, and probably would have done even better if his first run on start had been between non debutant props.

Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Daley is physically not strong enough to play test rugby. He got outmuscled, and we don't even have to start talking about technique.

If you can't take the hit, and you don't have enough upper body power to stay upright, it's lights out.

To think he can play test rugby agaun in the short term is beyond ridiculous.
Growden's article today indicates they''ll dump Ma'afu but stick with Daley. Growden's selection sources are usually pretty good.

James Slipper is in line to be the new tight-head prop, after excelling in his 15 minutes off the bench in his Test debut when the 21-year-old played on both sides of the scrum. The Wallabies are expected to persevere with Ben Daley at loose-head.

Laurie Weeks is another option at tight-head, but his selection will depend on how he plays for the Barbarians. Ma'afu may end up being the only front-row casualty.

Deans also hinted that Slipper may be headed for a rapid elevation.

''He's built for it,' the coach said of the Queensland prop. ''He's made for it. He's 'earthed', and like Ben, is going to be a fast learner.''
I'm not sure what being "earthed" means. Must be a Kiwi thing.

Its troubling that they could watch that game and think Daley could possibly turn things around in a week.

Spot on Naza and Blue.

"after excelling in his 15 minutes off the bench" - excelling as in 'did better than the other Aussie props'? Yeah, I guess he might have been a bit bettter, but not 'excellent' in the global sense (certainly in the bottom 50% of front rowers on display in the match).

I think 'earthed' is related to the way he conducts electricity - or RD might have meant 'grounded' but his command of the english language failed him (got his cliches - ha ha - mixed up, or I guess he could be trying to introduce a new turn of phrase).


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