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Wallabies front row

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DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
And we all acknowledge that it was a clear problem of our depth and Darwin's injury at the time. I don't want to see anymore of that learning on the job shit in Wallaby colours (as with Baxter tests 1-50) I have seen it once and my therapist doesn't wan't t to happen again.

The funny thing is the best young scrummaging THP is Dan Palmer by miles, but what you gain at scrum time you lose as he bleeds tries in the defensive line. Deans has clearly decided workrate is more important than scrummaging (as did Eddie Jones)

Yep, and I'm going to park myself in camp "Scrum #1". That is, I believe at the international level especially, a prop shoud first and foremost be a good scrummager. I'm not saying they can be completely useless everywhere else around the park but I would prefer a expert scrummager to an expert seagull every day of the week.
 
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TheTruth

Guest
What about Shep - has been chucked a lifeline at Reds - can he do the job
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I can't stand this debate any longer. It took Al Baxter 50 tests to start to get good. As soon as he got quite good, we dropped him for someone else who might take 50 tests to get good. ....

Scarf out.

Isn't the whole despair-ridden debate over Baxter about something deeper: namely, many of us seem (by implication) to have just accepted that the ARU and current coaching elite have done just a fine job preparing over recent years an adequate quantity and quality of Test-level, or near top level, forwards. Therefore, 'the forwards injury crisis', the explanation for Perth's and Gosford's woes, is, well, it's just awful bad luck and we have to live with it, and if we come to lose the Bledisloe and Tris because of it, we'll, that was just terribly unfortunate old chap. But thank goodness for those dazzling backs, loved the replays, so impressive, Cooper's a genius. Pity the crowd numbers are down again with no big wins. Oh well. Now, who will we pick for Europe, let's move on to the next blog....

But the question I would like to ask (of those far more knowledgeable than I), is this: why does it have to be like this, and should we not expect more the the rugby elite (ARU, Wallabies and S14 coaches) in this country?

If we accept that (a) forwards get lots of injuries (b) we have to play lots of physically very demanding Tests and (c) we MUST start to win Bleds and/or Tris to get our game back to its rightful place, then why aren't we making - more importantly demanding - this type of calculus is implemented at the core of Wallaby long-term planning, namely...

Looking forward: (1) statistically, over time what is a prudent, assumed forwards injury rate and average recovery period out for top line forwards? (2) what is the derived quantum of top line forwards required to provide adequate injury-contingent back up for (1) for all the crucial Tests that must aspire to be won on a credible basis. (3) What developmental, coaching, talent-seeking, skills training, physical conditioning etc resources must be invested in to ensure that each year we have delivered the depth of numbers (of sufficient quantity, quality and pack position) required by (2)?

Some may say: 'oh, that's unrealistic, it's just impossible to develop that many forwards in Australia, it's all about just being lucky enough in any one year and holding up a small number of elite forwards and fingers crossed'. And, of course, 'Deans is doing his best just finding two new props, he can't be held accountable for all these injuries, now we just have to experiment...'.

Then I would say: sorry, disagree, if we want to return to the very top league in world rugby (for a number of years, sustained), that sort of complacency and lack of forward planning _is precisely why today we have no viable answers to the disappearance of Robbo, Ben, Moore, TPN_. And why the 'bring back Baxter' movement is more a kind of despairing cry than the solid 'we really have the depth today' answers that we should have, but manifestly do not.

Bottom line: I want more, much more, from the ARU and our elite coaches _in a long-term sense_ in the proper
resourcing of our game to deal with a near-predictable flow of forwards injuries in the increasingly high-speed, full on game being played in the South.

[A PS if I may: whilst tactical mistakes were no doubt made in the Reds v Hurricanes match that began the consignment of the Reds to 5 on the ladder, there can be no question that the level of forwards injuries just prior to that contributed heavily to the Reds decline in the very last key games. McKenzie admitted there was not enough depth to handle it, and that he'd wouldn't let that happen again in 2011 (hopefully).]
 

Reddy!

Bob Davidson (42)
Haha RedsHappy, I love what you do but you don't have to write an essay every time you post.

Who is the ref this weekend? I think England made a mistake by leaving Wilko on the bench - he looked sharp when he came on last weekend.
 
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daz

Guest
Who is the ref this weekend? I think England made a mistake by leaving Wilko on the bench - he looked sharp when he came on last weekend.

Roman "Scrum or Fuck off" Poite. Ominous....

I agree England may regret the selection of Jonny on the bench. For England to realistically have a shot at winning this weekend given the forward domination, I'd have him on to continue the English tradition of scoring points via penanlty goals. Keep the Wobs in their own half and scrum at every opportunity. Get awarded the penalty and just keep banging them over.

Additionally, his defensive work is very, very good. A proven points scorer and a defensive asset. Not a bad combo against a team that has a weak scrum and a creatively running backline.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Roman "Scrum or Fuck off" Poite. Ominous....

I agree England may regret the selection of Jonny on the bench. For England to realistically have a shot at winning this weekend given the forward domination, I'd have him on to continue the English tradition of scoring points via penanlty goals. Keep the Wobs in their own half and scrum at every opportunity. Get awarded the penalty and just keep banging them over.

He was the guy in the refs ear about Ma'afu for most of the game
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Haha RedsHappy, I love what you do but you don't have to write an essay every time you post.

.

Thanks Reddy. I shall try and be shorter.

My challenge is that I feel I need a few paras or so to set out what I am passionate about as an issue that burns for me. The other dimension could well be that it could be worthwhile if GAGR had, for example, a discussion (essay making? ;-) ) section of the site that just focussed upon broader issues of the status of the game, in underlying or longer-term senses. Then that commentary could be a bit longer/more reflective, and not intrude upon the very legitimate passions re 'what's happening in today's game', etc.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Thanks Reddy. I shall try and be shorter.

My challenge is that I feel I need a few paras or so to set out what I am passionate about as an issue that burns for me. The other dimension could well be that it could be worthwhile if GAGR had, for example, a discussion (essay making? ;-) ) section of the site that just focussed upon broader issues of the status of the game, in underlying or longer-term senses. Then that commentary could be a bit longer/more reflective, and not intrude upon the very legitimate passions re 'what's happening in today's game', etc.

Write a piece for the blog, if the powers that be like it, they will publish it.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I can't stand this debate any longer. It took Al Baxter 50 tests to start to get good. As soon as he got quite good, we dropped him for someone else who might take 50 tests to get good. I've pulled all my head hair out so I'm having to go south looking for more hair to pull out. Those short ones hurt like hell.

It's my 10th wedding anniversary this w/e. Me and the wife are dumping the kids with grandparents and staying in a fancy hotel to have sex for 48 hours. Do not disturb. I'll catch you guys for the front row post-mortem (literally) on Monday.



Scarf out.

Off of the subject, happy aniversery mate.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Whilst England were the better scrum it certainly was not a landslide like the penalty count might suggest.

It's one thing to award 50-50 penalties to a dominant scrum but it's a whole different thing to award 50-50 penalties to last week's dominant scrum based on a week old performance. I was not impressed.
 
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TOCC

Guest
marked improvement from the wallaby scrum, keep these boys together for a few more performances and we could very well have a decent scrum by the end of the tri-nations
 

Reddy!

Bob Davidson (42)
marked improvement from the wallaby scrum, keep these boys together for a few more performances and we could very well have a decent scrum by the end of the tri-nations

Yeah...by the end of a losing Tri-Nations campaign.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
marked improvement from the wallaby scrum, keep these boys together for a few more performances and we could very well have a decent scrum by the end of the tri-nations

Robinson and Moore will be back for the Tri Nations, the scrum improved but were still rubbish. None of them deserve more than a ten minutes cameos in test rugby.
 

Lance Free

Arch Winning (36)
I can't stand this debate any longer. It took Al Baxter 50 tests to start to get good. As soon as he got quite good, we dropped him for someone else who might take 50 tests to get good. I've pulled all my head hair out so I'm having to go south looking for more hair to pull out. Those short ones hurt like hell.

It's my 10th wedding anniversary this w/e. Me and the wife are dumping the kids with grandparents and staying in a fancy hotel to have sex for 48 hours. Do not disturb. I'll catch you guys for the front row post-mortem (literally) on Monday.

Scarf out.

I'm thinking that you made the right choice Scarfie.......
 
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TOCC

Guest
i think everyone is still been a little melodramatic, the scrum was a vast improvement on last week, they did carry the stigma of last week and therefore proably lost the majority of the 50-50 calls, however they still performed a lot better.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I wish I could share the optimism.
Better than utter crap does not equate to acceptable.
Any gains in "respect" from world rugby in regards to scrummaging in the past 18 months has gone. There will not be an international ref who will not go into an Aus game knowing the scrum will probably fold like a deck of cards. And so any 50-50 calls will go against us, which is the law of the jungle as Fatprop says.
Not saying the solution is easy, but I feel a dire season is upon us.
If I am proved wrong, I will happily take the mockery and "I told you so's" from all and sundry.
What disturbs me more is the lack of application and urgency from many. What amount of shaming do these guys need to man the fuck up?
 
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