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Wallabies EOYT 2017

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TOCC

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I reckon he was unfairly pinged fairly consistently during the last Super campaign.

Good players know how to play both the ref and the opposition... if you’re consistently getting unfairly pinged for doing the same thing, then you need to assess what it is you’re doing
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
The area where we're not getting turnovers/breakdown penalties compared to our opposition are massively at hooker and somewhat surprisingly at halfback (TJ Perenara) and in the centres. Our backrow is actually performing pretty well statistically there. Hooper certainly had the most turnovers of any of the backrowers in the Rugby Championship. The top two players were Marx and Creevy who got way more than anyone.

Marx (and Creevy) may stand out, but SA has nothing like their former prowess in fetching. I’m not convinced that NZ turnover stats are anything to be proud about either.

There is a palpable shift in the game to reduce penalties from the ruck, and fetching is being effected.

That said our card rate was crazy, Cheika made a determined effort to fix it, and he did. It is another awesome improvement. Some of us however still yearn for the fetcher and could cope with chancing the ref a touch more than right now. Comparing to other nations in the RC isnt really a valid metric as they are all chasing the same conservative approach to the ruck and ruck penalties.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Given the shift away from the rampant poaching we saw in RWC15 i wonder how effective Pocock will be. He's an incredible player in a variety of ways but poaching is definitely what sets him apart.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Marx (and Creevy) may stand out, but SA has nothing like their former prowess in fetching. I’m not convinced that NZ turnover stats are anything to be proud about either.

There is a palpable shift in the game to reduce penalties from the ruck, and fetching is being effected.

That said our card rate was crazy, Cheika made a determined effort to fix it, and he did. It is another awesome improvement. Some of us however still yearn for the fetcher and could cope with chancing the ref a touch more than right now. Comparing to other nations in the RC isnt really a valid metric as they are all chasing the same conservative approach to the ruck and ruck penalties.

Surely what the other teams are doing is relevant, particularly the ones we play most frequently. The key point I was making is that those teams are producing more turnovers than us and are attacking the defensive breakdown more often. They aren't doing it predominantly through their 7 or even their backrow though. On backrow metrics we are absolutely competitive in that regard. Clearly David Pocock would increase our number of turnovers won if he joined the backrow because he's the best exponent of it in World Rugby. To provide more breakdown pressure across the park though and be competitive in that regard with our opposition requires players doing it in other positions. We're not going to achieve it just by having a backrow that has players with better fetching skills in it.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
The teams we play most frequently is a fair metric for just that. SA are at an eb.

At any rate I’m not really disagreeing and the discipline improvement is certainly welcome.

Pocock may well help, if he regains form quickly, but what I’m more thinking about is the strategy. Pulling back on cards - brilliant. But in the Cheika constant improve, I think there is room to get a bit more edgy.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I thought the new ruck laws may reduce the impact of the fetcher, after watching the U20s JWC and NRC, I’m not sure that will actually be the case. Whilst I can’t find exact statistics I remember watching Liam Wright secure a few turnovers each game, and the NRC stats reflect similarly.


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Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
They always seem to be changing the laws that will apparently reduce the role of the fetcher, and the good ones just adapt..........

I think Pocock has supposedly been made redundant a few times now?
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Actually Savea is not a good example as he developed significantly his kicking skills from when he first burst onto the scene. The great Wallaby sides always had two full backs who could kick as well as run it back with aplomb, with one selected on the wing which made the territory game difficult to execute against them
Point taken about Savea but I'm not suggesting we play two guys without a kicking game. I'm all for having two fullbacks with one on the wing, I said prior to Bledislode 3 the ABs looked unbalanced because they lacked a noted kicker either on the wing or in the centres. I was simply making the observation that many wingers nowadays don't have any kicking game whereas a while back it was a rarer phenomenon.
 

Micheal

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
How big is the squad that we're taking on this tour? And who do you all think will be the side facing Japan?

Ideally, I'd like to see a slightly larger than normal squad, with a B XV to face Japan, with A team reinforcements on the bench incase things get a little bit how-ya-goin.

I'd then like to see some B team players filtered into the 23 against Wales and Scotland (only a couple each time - we can't afford to take the piss) and a full strength 23 to go against England.

Players like Kepu, Coleman, Hooper, Genia, Foley have all played a tremendous amount of rugby in the past little while across a crazy amount of the world.

As the spine of the team going into the World Cup we certainly need to protect them.
 
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Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Two teams I would be absolutely 1st 23 best available:
Scotland - can’t afford to lose to them again
England - massive impact on rankings and rankings g points

If we beat those two teams I would count this as a good year for Australian rugby (putting aside the shambolic ARU and the crap that happened to the Force). I think next year our super teams will record a few victories against NZ drawing confidence from our win in Bledislode 3.
 

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
4 matches left, id be looking to play full strength for all of them.

Perhaps in the Japanese game, we could rest some of the older bodies or see some mass changes at or around the half time mark and considering the score. But the more games they play together the better.

Only guys i'd be looking to rest would be Kepu or TPN for Uelese and AAT. And ditch Simmons for Tui in the Japanese game but if mass changes happened for the Japanese game, some guys would of played only 1 game in the best part of 5 weeks come the first test in Europe
RC - Arg (away)
rest Bledisloe 3
rest (Barbarians game)
rest (Japan)
Europe (Wales i think)
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
4 matches left, id be looking to play full strength for all of them.

Perhaps in the Japanese game, we could rest some of the older bodies or see some mass changes at or around the half time mark and considering the score. But the more games they play together the better.

Only guys i'd be looking to rest would be Kepu or TPN for Uelese and AAT. And ditch Simmons for Tui in the Japanese game but if mass changes happened for the Japanese game, some guys would of played only 1 game in the best part of 5 weeks come the first test in Europe
RC - Arg (away)
rest Bledisloe 3
rest (Barbarians game)
rest (Japan)
Europe (Wales i think)

Agreed, Cheika has a chance to flesh out his stats a little now so i can't see why he wouldn't be going all out. Bled 3 + some youth development pushes the year into a pass mark but if we win all 4 remaining games it's closer to a credit.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Luckhan Tui has done his hammy and won’t be on the spring tour


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Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Quade gets sent off for 10 for yet another high tackle.

Hard to think of anything QC (Quade Cooper) could do to make it less likely that he'll ever get picked again

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