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Wallabies announced

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waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
From memory, people like and Randell and Umaga felt that they had more games in them.

E.g., fro, Wikipedia: When John Mitchell and Robbie Deans took over the coaching of the All Blacks from Wayne Smith and Tony Gilbert in October 2001 it soon became clear Randell's All Black days were numbered.

This current Wallaby selection goes for skills over hardness at every opportunity. I'm not anti-skills, but I reckon Robbie sees things differently to us selectors here on the forum. And I think he's wrong.

agree with you totally scarfy,
problem with the skill selection is, we seem to be behind the kiwis and altitude men at every turn, they dont seem to drop the simple ball or fail to pass well that we do.
since day one i think deans has tried to make an international crusaders, and well, the crusaders system doesnt work at super level anymore, so its never going to work at international.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Hawko

Good post. I didn't agree with all of it but that is neither here nor there - it's why we posters do what we do.

Brown - to answer wj's question also as to why he was picked (and not Mowen or Houston) when Palu and Higginbotham were out - it's probably just on work rate and mongrel. He's like the Kiwi Read without the pace, but he'll play for 80 minutes. There's a bit of danger there because being a mongrel player is never far away from being a nutter; but Deans has made the call.

Why Hoiles, a linker, got picked ahead of Mowen, another light player IMO, is anybody's guess but perhaps Deans saw a bit more hardness in him this year that I missed. He certainly looked like he had his noggin in a few more rucks this year.

There was always going to be a big hole if Cliffy was injured. Higginbotham has the physical attributes but I doubt if Deans will think of him as an 8 when he comes back. [And incidentally Hawko, Palu had trouble getting back into the side 12 months ago because he always takes time to come back after an injury.]

Baxter
got a a tough selection decision but Deans has thrown the dice in favour of Ma'afu. I thought that Weeks was in anyway. Those two should fight it out for the 3 jersey. Scrummaging should come first as you say but it was his scrummaging that was targeted by refs in 3N last year, rightly or wrongly, and Deans didn't want to take a punt on that happening again to a 32 year old. He's thinking that either Weeks or Ma'afu will be up to speed internationally for next year. Even this year you couldn't say they are young props that can't scrummage and have to learn on the job in test matches, though the first England test will be revealing.

LHP selections are a more serious matter. Alexander will most likely sub for Robinson, not that Fat Cat had a stellar S14 scrummaging season by his standards. Alexander had a few dodgy scrum games also - the Canes' match comes to mind and IIRR, the Crusaders'. Cowan by his own admission was not in great form in the S14 and the injury to Fat Cat should give him another chance. Based on experience he would probably have precedence over Daley to be the no.2 LHP; so look for him and whoever Deans thinks is the 2nd rated THP to start for the Barbarians.

Giteau got a bit of form back towards the end and was always going to be in the Wallaby team anyway - but that is your point, that he shouldn't have been. One thing I will say about Giteau is that if he's in a bit of form he can take that into any game he plays - S14 or a big test match. He's not like others who may be cowed by a big occasion.

He may have been marginalised if Barnes was in top form but he's not. Barnes' good games, and there weren't a lot, were sprinkled sparingly over the S14 season. If you don't have these guys in the team, who do you put in? I'd rather take a punt on these fellows coming right this winter than trying another inexperienced guy like A. Fainga'a with the other problems we are having. His time in test matches should come, but except for injuries to others I think it will be after the next RWC when Giteau has gone offshore, not before. But like some others, AF should be taken on the EOYT to see if he blows a few socks off in the mid-week games. That could change everything.

Valentine – I think you are being a bit harsh. I thought he was in good form for the Brumbies and mentioned in some post thathe was winning the battle with Burgess as the form backup to Genia. He is a nutter though and Deans will probably prefer Burgess, warts and all.

In regards to Giteau - everyone has finally learned that he is an inside centre and not a flyhalf, and was starting to look good towards the end of the year when To'omua was brought into the team...

I think he's a better option than both Barnes and Fainga'a... his experience will be vital if Cooper plays at flyhalf, and he's by far the best goal kicker in the squad. And at test level you need someone of that calibre.

As for Hoiles. I'm not surprised he was selected. I've said all year that he's been playing well and I think he's been mostly getting criticism on his form on previous years.

With Palu and Higginbotham brought back into the squad eventually he'll surely be dropped but now he's got the opportunity to battle it out with Brown for that backup position.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
this might as well go here. With Paul O'Connell out former Red Ed O'Donaghue has been selected to tour apparently!. Great stuff.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
People still won't list who missed out that should not have but talk in generalities that most people agree with, always have and always will.

Folks who object to the selections should list people who should be included and put in the name of the player who should be replaced.

I'll start if off:

Van Humphries - Mark Chisholm.


Any other suggestions?
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Sorry to Lee and Moses for ruining what might be an interesting tangent but I think the Wobs have certainly gone the wrong route with picking 3 hookers who players loose rugby. Yes, Taff ovvers amazing contributions in other facets and yes, Fainga'a's tight play is vastly improved but I think the squad needs that hard nosed Frier or Moore type rake, even if he only plays 5 mins off the bench normally.

Now I see that the S14 squad don't really have any older hard-nosed players of this type left in them, at least an uninjured or non-retiring one. If I was Robbie I'd be considering delving into the Club land for this as the academies mostly offer younger guys who wouldn't be able to fill this role yet.

I'm not from NSW or QLD so I couldn't name any names but I'd be taking a punt. What do you reckon?
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Cummins ---> McCabe

Cummins = Big aggressive winger/outside center.

McCabe = Skillful fleet-footed winger/fullback.

Cummins =/= McCabe therefore maybe McCabe wasn't the type of player Robbie wanted.

Also, Cummins did very well this year for a player coming off a long injury layoff. Robbie wanted a chance to develop him on the Spring Tour last year but it was taken away from him, he is using this year's inbound tests to regain that chance. I hope for and look forward too his Wallaby debut.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
I agree with those proposed substitutions (Van Humphries, McCabe, Mowen), and I would add Baxter for Maafu, plus I would have Waugh as Barbarians captain. Both have experience, and both had very good S14 seasons. Van Humphries doesn't have the international experience, but he did have a great S14, and (like Waugh particularly) is a tough bugger. The argument against them is that Deans already knows what they can do, and could still call on them if the need arises. Mowen plays a similar style to Hoiles, but is younger, so a better choice for the Oz BaaBaas. McCabe played the whole season and was in better form than Cummins - pretty obvious really.

There aren't any other options for hooker, but TPN would be my first choice anyway. He plays plenty tight enough, plus has great skills and makes a big impact wherever he is. Freier is not in a fit state to play for the Wallabies, plus I think he is too small anyway.

As for Richard Brown being like Keiran Reid without the pace - yes, and without the skills and self controll. I like Brown's enthusiasm, but often it is ill directed.

The vast majority of performances and results under Deans have been poor, especially the 'Grand Slam' NOT tour, and the Tri Nations. Losing to the All Blacks and Springboks is not unexpected given that they have very strong teams, but the manner of the losses was disappointing, as were some of the selections (Tahu springs to mind here particularly). I am still hoping my reservations will be proven unfounded soon - maybe for the World Cup? but if not, it will be too late.

The Wallabies need a big hard running number 8, and a hard running and tackilng number 12.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
enforcer

It's probable that 3 hookers were chosen because TPN was in doubt when they made the selections. It's just as well - and incidentally I don't think too many people would think that TPN isn't hard nosed.

Moore couldn't be chosen because of his injury and Freier wasn't chosen because he hadn't played since the Brumbies match. He is now a serial crock and is unlikely to be chosen for the Wallabies again unless he can prove that he can stay fit for a while.

So we are left with Saia Fainga'a and Huia Edmonds as the Wallaby hookers until TPN and Moore are fit. You mention that we should pick somebody out of club land. That happened in the amateur days but it's unlikely to happen again. Anybody chosen these days would have to be from a S14 squad or at the very least from a professional academy.

Again we get to the point - which hard men were left out who could have been picked? Hardman is a hard man :) but he has retired. The only healthy guys left who played S14 this year were in the 2009 U20 squad: Kirkpatrick, Charles and Whittaker who are now only 20 or 21 years old. Fainga'a and Edmonds were the last men standing - almost literally.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Langthorne

It would have been nice for Waugh to captain the Baas which would have meant that McCutcheon would drop out but I was thinking more about the players in the test squad. All the Baas players are development players for test matches and all young except Chapman. We shouldn't mind too much if these 10 aren't experienced hard men.

As for Baxter instead of Ma'afu: as I have said a couple of times - he has probably been left out because the referees pinged his scrummaging last year and he copped it a bit in the S14 as well, especially when referees wanted a scapegoat. I wouldn't bet on it not happening again. It may not be fair to Baxter but that's life.

For me Mowen for Hoiles is neither here nor there in the hardness stakes though I thought Hoiles was a bit more involved in the tackle/ruck contests this year.

Agree that results under Deans have been disappointing - I never got on the bandwagon and said I wouldn't until I saw consistency from the Wallabies both home and away. I didn't knock him so much because of his selections, nor do I now; he's got to work with the players he has.

What pissed me off last year is that sometimes the Wallabies played hard during a match and next week they were marshmellows, or they were hard in the first half but not in the second and got blown away.

Well Lee, you might say, you have more or less said that not too many hard men were left out that were available; so you can't expect any better this year - but I do expect better. I expect a good coach to bring things out of players they haven't shown before as individuals and as a team.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
The Brumbies front row gave away a lot penalties this S14, more than Baxter and the Waratahs front row....but I think we are really talking about the reserve reserve THP position, behind Weekes and Cowan (and maybe Alexander).
 

Grandmaster Flash

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Leroy Houston - Stephen Hoiles

While I think Hoiles is a better choice at the moment than Mowen, the Wallabies still lack ball runners in the forward pack. Leroy's fitness was improving all season and his linking game is as good as Hoiles's.

He should of at least been brought into the Baabaas squad to be in the Wallaby environment and work with Williams on his game.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Nice piece on Weekes

Years, not Weeks for new Wallaby

* Iain Payten
* From: The Daily Telegraph
* May 31, 2010 12:00AM


LAURIE Weeks has learned a thing or two about persistence.

It's a necessity when your path takes you from Marrickville and housing commission flats through to the Wallabies. As a tighthead prop, particularly, it's not a well-trodden route.

"I just realised you have to work harder. That's what you have to do to get ahead," Weeks said yesterday.

Glancing at Weeks' background - St Joseph's College, Sydney University - you might get the idea the 24-year-old's journey has been the cookie-cutter standard of numerous Wallabies before him. You'd be wrong.

Raised in the non-glamorous pockets of Sydney's Inner West, Weeks aspired to be a rugby league star until his teacher and junior coach realised the nuggety centre was built for a different game.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

"I grew up in Marrickville and then in Housing Commission over at Lilyfield, running around there with all my mates, who are leaguies," Weeks said.

The deputy principal of Weeks' primary school introduced him to union. With the help of contacts, he helped the youngster get a scholarship to rugby nursery Joeys.

Weeks flourished in the front-row but his old mates were a bit baffled.

"They still don't get it. The first game they watched they were up me for not taking enough hit-ups," Weeks laughs.

Australian schoolboys honours followed in 2003 but the hard work was only just beginning. Weeks couldn't crack Sydney University's first-grade colts team for two years.

"The first colts and the second colts front-rows were the Australian schoolboys from the previous two years," Weeks said.

"In my second year in second colts I scored 25 tries in the season. I don't know what happened there."

Weeks doubled his training efforts, adopted a professional attitude and with the help of Uni stalwarts such as Tim Davidson forced his way up to Uni's first-grade side.

His strength and power shone, and he won a NSW academy contract for 2007 and 2008.

Weeks was on the verge of big things but last year NSW didn't match the Reds' offer of a full-time contract.

"I was disappointed," he said. "I would have loved to have stayed but I have moved to Brisbane now and enjoyed every minute up there.

"I would have regretted it my whole life if I stayed in Sydney".

The Waratahs must regret letting Weeks go. Starting every match for the Reds last year, he won the Queensland and Australian rookie of the year awards.

In tandem with Ben Daley and Saia Fainga'a, the 114kg prop was rarely beaten this year.

Much of his growth this year has been under the wing of new Reds coach Ewen McKenzie, the man who didn't want him two years earlier at the Waratahs.

"I haven't brought that up but it has crossed my mind a few times," Weeks laughs. "Nah, I get on really well with Ewen. He has been an awesome coach."

Weeks was shocked to be selected for the Wallabies last week - but not as much as mum Christine. He says she is the biggest influence in his life for raising him and his younger sisters Maddie and Missy as a single parent.

"When I rang her she was teaching a [kindergarten] class, and she started crying on the phone," Weeks said.

Things have changed for Weeks. He is in the Wallabies squad and his days of being overlooked by coaches have changed. He was the very first player Melbourne Rebels signed for 2011.

His next goal is the Wallabies No. 3 jersey, but Weeks has time. Persistence pays, right?

"Exactly," he said. "I say that to a lot of guys who are 19 in our Reds academy. Just relax."
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
He's done well. In hindsight the acquisition of Kepu put paid to his retention in the Tahs stable. I can't say that I saw that as a negative when he left as they had so many good props on the books and Palmer went OK when he got on the park at Carisbrook as a teenager in 2008. The Uni guys probably saw his quality better than I could. I remember that he was always a feisty goer at Joeys and in clubland but didn't appreciate his scrummaging prowess.

He's going to be around for a while for the Wallabies methinks and meantime the Tahs have lost both Weeks and Palmer, once their THP futures. That's pro footie for you: a never ending story.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
The challenge is keeping the next generation happy while the current generation finishes.

The Tahs may have invested in Baxter and Waugh a year too long but a longer season will see squad depth tested. Hopefully Hickey will not run the first 15 into the ground and fail to build up the experience of the next level.

I can see 2012 being a real problem as Baxter, Waugh & Palu at least leave.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
You're right fatprop. Succession planning is important in any organisation - in businesses, governments or sporting bodies and any other outfits than need management of employees.

Waugh is irreplaceable at the Tahs; his value to them at the S14 level would not be matched by the value of too many Aussies to their S14 teams even though they are better players than Waugh is. But life moves on; McCutcheon looks the goods as his long term replacement - something I didn't contemplate as recently as 6 months ago.

Palu is also irreplaceable but not just for the Tahs. Ryan will probably move up to Baxter's spot. The Uni guys set store by him, but I will be watching Uni against good scrummaging teams a lot more nervously than I have done in the past.

But there is a lot of water to go under the rugby bridge before then and maybe the Tahs can get a good foreign THP as a bridge to the next long term Tah THP. I'm not so worried about LHP if Salesi Manu is acquired - and if they get somebody better - better still. And I'll tell you what: I was pleasantly surprised with Tilse's scrumming efforts when he got a shot.
 
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