Wallabies 2025

[TSR]

SC, that doesn't excuse the woeful lack of fitness to cover the break,, 21 Thorn pulled a hammie (fitness) and no tackle and the cover inc Wrght was nowhere to be seen. The Highlanders were straight back into the Brumbies 22 and a knock on saved them. Larkham looked annoyed at the mess. They were lucky not to pull a loss from the jaws of a win.
We have seen 2 approaches to this lack of fitness, we used to play soft and then play like demons in the last 15 mins after the game is lost, and now we play well enough for 65-70 mins and are not fit enough to close the game out.
I do not accept your not a fitness issue.

I’m a bit surprised on your stance here. I thought you would applaud the success in bringing fatigue back in as a key part of the game as it used to be for so long before we let teams incessantly stop the game to let their forwards catch a breath.

There is lots of info around on both the significantly increase in ball in play time and also the shortening of overall game time meaning players are doing a lot more work in a shorter period. There are numerous podcasts and talk shows who have talked specifically to this point and Nick Phipps recently endeared himself to the Northern hemisphere when he suggested the top teams there wouldn’t be able to keep up in Super Rugby (he subsequently back tracked a bit - but I can imagine how it was received). No doubt at all there is lots of truth to your point that players have struggled due to lack of conditioning. Part of that I would guess is because whenever you see significant shifts in things like speed of game and ball in play players and coaches always take some time to adapt - often a season or two. Part of it though is also simply that the changes are doing what they were designed to do - leaving the big men out of gas for periods, especially towards the end of games. The change is significant enough that coaches will re-think the profile of some of their players going forward.

The key issue here may well be what interpretation we get for intentional rugby. If test rugby is played in the stop start nature that it has been (which I suspect is likely) our players may well be at a disadvantage for being leaner and more mobile but less robust. I suspect it will also influence selection heavily and we’ll all wonder why certain players were overlooked despite looking a million dollars at Super level. On the flip side if the internationals follow the super rugby path then it will be a big bonus for us.

 

[BDA]

Guys are going to be breathing heavy and fatigued in the last quarter of the game. If they're arent, they aren't trying hard enough honestly. I definitely would have agreed with the sentiment in previous seasons where the Aussie team would so often fall to pieces in the final 20 minutes, but it hasn't really been the case this year.

 

[stillmissit]

Tom Wright is covering the open side wing. Deb's role there is drop and cover the blind wing when Toole is drawn forward by the blindside play.

You can see him trying to get into position here. He's the Brumby closest to the ball

View attachment 21338

From here though, he basically stops running because he's injured after a kick around 70min and gets nowhere near where he should be.

2:18:56 on the Stan coverage.

I'm not arguing about Debrekini, he was shot before this started. If it was his job to cover then nobody was aware of the need to cover for him and maybe Wright should have been doing that. I wonder what the hell Wright is doing covering wing on their scrum put in? that is madness, when they first moved the ball from the scum the danger should have been obvious but neither Sapsford nor Wright realised.
The truth of our lack of aerobic fitness will become obvious even to you if you watch closely in the next couple of weeks.

 

[rugbyAU]

AAA, Nonggorr, de Luttis, Robertson

Out of that list there's some good scrummaging and decent workloads around the park, with low error rates. For the Lions, I think it'll probably be AAA, Nonggorr and Tupou, although de Luttis could slip in there somewhere and Schmidt seemed to rate Robertson so he could sneak in also, although I'm not convinced his scrummaging is as good as the others.

I think AA will start on form and then Tupou on the bench, the others aren’t up to facing the Lions IMO

 

[BDA]

My way too early Predicted Wallabies Squad for Lions tour:
Prop
Alan Ala'alatoa
James Slipper
Angus Bell
Alex Hodgman
Taniela Tupou
Tom Robertson

Hooker
Matt Faessler
Dave Porecki
Nic Dolly/Brandon Paenga-Amosa

Lock
Lukhan Salakai-Loto
Josh Canham
Darcy Swain
Nick Frost
Jeremy Williams

Back Row
Harry Wilson
Fraser McReight
Carlo Tizzano
Rob Valetini
Rob Leota
Seru Uru


Halfback
Tate McDermott
Nic White
Jake Gordon

Flyhalf
Noah Lolesio
Tom Lynagh
Ben Donaldson

Centre
Len Ikitau
Hunter Paisami
Joseph Sua'alii

Wing/Fullback
Tom Wright
Andrew Kellaway
Max Jorgensen
Filipo Daugunu
Dylan Pietsch

Agree with most of this but:-

1. I'd have Nonggorr ahead of Robertson and De Luttis. I think he's better than Robertson in basically every aspect of play. De Luttis a tad inexperienced.
2. For me BPA is a lock, ahead of Pollard and Porecki.
3. Gleeson instead of Leota
4. Potter instead of Kellaway

 

[stillmissit]

I’m a bit surprised on your stance here. I thought you would applaud the success in bringing fatigue back in as a key part of the game as it used to be for so long before we let teams incessantly stop the game to let their forwards catch a breath.

There is lots of info around on both the significantly increase in ball in play time and also the shortening of overall game time meaning players are doing a lot more work in a shorter period. There are numerous podcasts and talk shows who have talked specifically to this point and Nick Phipps recently endeared himself to the Northern hemisphere when he suggested the top teams there wouldn’t be able to keep up in Super Rugby (he subsequently back tracked a bit - but I can imagine how it was received). No doubt at all there is lots of truth to your point that players have struggled due to lack of conditioning. Part of that I would guess is because whenever you see significant shifts in things like speed of game and ball in play players and coaches always take some time to adapt - often a season or two. Part of it though is also simply that the changes are doing what they were designed to do - leaving the big men out of gas for periods, especially towards the end of games. The change is significant enough that coaches will re-think the profile of some of their players going forward.

The key issue here may well be what interpretation we get for intentional rugby. If test rugby is played in the stop start nature that it has been (which I suspect is likely) our players may well be at a disadvantage for being leaner and more mobile but less robust. I suspect it will also influence selection heavily and we’ll all wonder why certain players were overlooked despite looking a million dollars at Super level. On the flip side if the internationals follow the super rugby path then it will be a big bonus for us.

Interesting view TSR, I'm not sure it will take 2 seasons to get players' aerobic fitness up. I agree with your analysis regarding northern hemi teams, although the Irish, French and occasionally Scots produced fast games with lots of contact work. The game is faster, but it is not a new thing. this season has gone up again, that should be no surprise as it has been happening for a while. Having leaner, faster players may be a disadvantage against a powerful BIL but it may work against them in the last 20. We have played lean and faster but you can only do that well with a strong pack and good breakdown skills. So to sum up, I'm with you 50% of the way....

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It does take time if you want to avoid an injury crisis. It's not Club land or even 1st grade standards. Test level S&C is long game stuff.

If you want your players to put on and maintain strength and size whilst being aerobically fit as well as able to complete anaerobic feats to a high standard on repeat you build it over time.

Yeah, you can bulk a guy up fairly quickly but it will come at a cost to their movement and ability to maintain movement for 80 mins. If you push said player to what they could do at a previous size you are seriously temping soft tissue injury that will then cause a huge backward step in all facets.

I don't really think a fitter leaner team will run over or anyone down because a the opposite side could have slowed it to their tempo for 60 mins and isn't suffering the fatigue you need them to. Fitter sides tend to start the game fast and maintain it longer while the other team eventually slips up from mostly poor decision making when tired. This has been a common trait in Super Rugby and Bledisloe tests where the last 10 of each half Aus sides have given away previous good fight.

 

[Major Tom]

Sometimes. I wouldn't say our stock of 10s below the current crop are great but Front Row looks very promising. Goldsbrough is the unknown really. Very hyped but currently injured. O'Donnell and Dre have been given opportunities and look comfortable at the pro level so I'll back them with continued exposure to push on. Big thing for Dre is his boot which I didn't know was in his game but a 12 with a legitimate clearance kick on them is a game changer.

And left footer too.
Out of the other franchises you'd hope a couple of these kicks on.
Force: Pasitoa, Leahy and Boston Fakafanua
Brumbs: Pritchard, Jarrah Mcleod

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Pasitoa probably the only one realistically a chance for 27 in my mind. Also, he looks like he's on the path to no.8 soon.

The guys I named are Super Rugby capped now while the other guys are still in the looked good in the age groups category. I know Leahy has had 2 starts on the Wing but not sighted so far this season.

 

[Wilson]

Pasitoa probably the only one realistically a chance for 27 in my mind. Also, he looks like he's on the path to no.8 soon.

The guys I named are Super Rugby capped now while the other guys are still in the looked good in the age groups category. I know Leahy has had 2 starts on the Wing but not sighted so far this season.

I'm really surprised we haven't seen Leahy yet, given Pietsch spent a few of weeks on the sideline, you think Leahy would've got the call up ahead of Poolman.

The other good kicking 12 in the game right now is Henry, he's both great from out of hand and off the tee, but who knows what will happen with his body going forward.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I'm really surprised we haven't seen Leahy yet, given Pietsch spent a few of weeks on the sideline, you think Leahy would've got the call up ahead of Poolman.

The other good kicking 12 in the game right now is Henry, he's both great from out of hand and off the tee, but who knows what will happen with his body going forward.

Sometimes the best ability is availability and unfortunately for Henry we just haven't seen his skills enough to know. He could be a good pickup for a side but the Reds may also like to wait and see. Paisami is signed through 2026 and he'll receive enough offers from overseas Clubs that keeping Henry may be a cheaper option and spend elsewhere...

 

[KOB1987]

Tupou will be in the test squad. End of.

 

[Adam84]

No doubt. They're paying him $ 1 million, and he is capable of playing far better, even if not demonstrating those standards recently.

 

[KOB1987]

He's definitley underperforming. He lives for test rugby, he'll get his mojo back in time for the Lions.

 

[stillmissit]

Fitter sides tend to start the game fast and maintain it longer while the other team eventually slips up from mostly poor decision making when tired. This has been a common trait in Super Rugby and Bledisloe tests where the last 10 of each half Aus sides have given away previous good fight.

Agree with this Ghost.. I met a guy who was a trainer with the Dutch soccer team. He said they were strong enough and leg fit enough, but their core strength was poor. He gave me a list of core strengthening exercises. When I tried them out on my team, they squealed that they were all too hard. He told me the Dutch team had a group of fitness specialists who had no idea about core strength. I'm not sure things have changed since then. Core fitness means that you can be leaner but stronger. The fittest/strongest I ever was I played twice a week, training twice a week and soccer on Sundays. These days I am not convinced they play enough rugby to build a solid base, particularly the extended squad.

 

[stillmissit]

No doubt. They're paying him $ 1 million, and he is capable of playing far better, even if not demonstrating those standards recently.

Has he become lazy or is it just taking him a long time to get over the A/T?

 

[Major Tom]

Pasitoa probably the only one realistically a chance for 27 in my mind. Also, he looks like he's on the path to no.8 soon.

The guys I named are Super Rugby capped now while the other guys are still in the looked good in the age groups category. I know Leahy has had 2 starts on the Wing but not sighted so far this season.

He does look big. Just hope he can string some games together because he is exactly the type of player that the wallabies need.
I think the Reds tour games, from Wales to Ulster, has really accelerated Dre's development. Can deffs see the benefit for other franchises exploring it more.

 

[dru]

Who's he fighting with?

Who are your #2 and #3 tight heads? (assuming AAA is #1?)

Adam has answered it.

AAA, Nonggorr, de Luttis, Robertson

Out of that list there's some good scrummaging and decent workloads around the park, with low error rates. For the Lions, I think it'll probably be AAA, Nonggorr and Tupou, although de Luttis could slip in there somewhere and Schmidt seemed to rate Robertson so he could sneak in also, although I'm not convinced his scrummaging is as good as the others.

To be fair, I'd probably give Tupou the nod at 3rd #3 on the basis of his history, even if my call on form would be either Robertson or de Luttis. I just wish he was picking up his game with a better upward trend than he is currently showing. If Tupou is receiving advice that he is a shoe-in right now, he needs better advisors.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Adam has answered it.

Follow up question. 70th minute of the first lion's test. We have a goal line scrum on our line, and we are defending a 1 point leader.

Ellis Genge packing down for the Lions

Who will Schmidt want at TH at that particular moment in time?

 

[Braveheart81]

I still wake up in a cold sweat from time to time thinking about Ben Alexander scrumming in the third test in Sydney in 2013.