Wallabies 2023

[Dctarget]

The other big question is going to be how many not quite fit players he selects in the initial squad - do players like Tupou, Hooper and Ikitau make it even if they're not fit for the warm up game against France or even the first round against Georgia, or do they sit with the shadow squad on the expectation that there will be injuries and opportunity to bring them in as they regain match fitness with the barbarians?

You don't fuck around like that I think. Maybe Hooper but you need Ikitau and Tupou in there. They'll both be right in time. There's 3-5 weeks left for Ikitau's recovery.

 

[Braveheart81]

Don't forget Eddie has planned out the ~15 man shadow squad in the UK with the Barbarians, it definitely gives him some freedom in the early stages around a 3rd halfback/hooker/fly half and 6th prop.

The other big question is going to be how many not quite fit players he selects in the initial squad - do players like Tupou, Hooper and Ikitau make it even if they're not fit for the warm up game against France or even the first round against Georgia, or do they sit with the shadow squad on the expectation that there will be injuries and opportunity to bring them in as they regain match fitness with the barbarians?

The issue you have with the shadow squad and replacing a player is that if a player has a short term injury but you don't have appropriate coverage in the squad you have to replace that player for the tournament. You don't want to have a situation where your first choice in a position would miss one game but needs to be replaced in the squad because you don't have coverage for them.

There's 5 weeks until our first game. I'd be surprised if Tupou, Hooper and Ikitau aren't all named in the squad.

I reckon the France game will be partly used to get some time into squad members who haven't been used. Whoever makes the squad out of Schoupp, Philip, Faessler, Gleeson, Lonergan, Donaldson, Foketi, Pietsch etc.

 

[KOB1987]

You definitely have your core players in the squad, what you don’t want is a player that’s surplus to requirements taking up a spot for the tournament and not playing a minute. Remember in 2015 we had a congested schedule but the middle game was against a minnow so Cheika concocted a strategy to take a 1st and 2nd XV (to play the middle game) and I think 1 reserve, which would have been a prop. Sio covered hooker and Giteau covered halfback. It was a risk because after the pool games they needed an injury to bring in a 3rd hooker (Hanson I think), and then a 3rd halfback. I know the former happened but not sure about the latter.

Point is there is a bit of strategy that goes into it, there will be an inevitable injury and coverage in crucial positions can then be brought in. But you need to make sure you have someone to plug the hole for the pool rounds. We are fortunate in this regard as we aren’t playing anyone ranked above 9th. It will be interesting to see the strategy when the squad is announced.

 

[Highlander35]

You definitely have your core players in the squad, what you don’t want is a player that’s surplus to requirements taking up a spot for the tournament and not playing a minute. Remember in 2015 we had a congested schedule but the middle game was against a minnow so Cheika concocted a strategy to take a 1st and 2nd XV (to play the middle game) and I think 1 reserve, which would have been a prop. Sio covered hooker and Giteau covered halfback. It was a risk because after the pool games they needed an injury to bring in a 3rd hooker (Hanson I think), and then a 3rd halfback. I know the former happened but not sure about the latter.

Point is there is a bit of strategy that goes into it, there will be an inevitable injury and coverage in crucial positions can then be brought in. But you need to make sure you have someone to plug the hole for the pool rounds. We are fortunate in this regard as we aren’t playing anyone ranked above 9th. It will be interesting to see the strategy when the squad is announced.

I think WR (World Rugby) will not be happy if there's messing around with the front rowers. They've increased the squads by two, without the increase in matchday squads there was between '11 and '15, AND increased the minimum time between games for everyone. I imagine there's an implicit understanding.

 

[KOB1987]

I think WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) will not be happy if there's messing around with the front rowers. They've increased the squads by two, without the increase in matchday squads there was between '11 and '15, AND increased the minimum time between games for everyone. I imagine there's an implicit understanding.

Yes, i wasn’t necessarily thinking the strategy would be around front rowers, I was just using that as an example. I mentioned earlier that 5 props were the norm, but I forgot about the squad size increase. All things being equal you would think most would use one of those spots for a front rower. However, isn’t the squad increase largely to allow for HIA protocols? Therefore I would assume any ‘implicit understanding‘ would be to use the extra spots to cover for any players who are concussion prone, if there are any, otherwise the positions that are most prone to head injuries.

 

[KOB1987]

I think I have it worked out - Eddie plans to rest as many of the 1st XV starting side in the game against Portugal as possible before the QF, therefore similar to Cheika is initially taking 2 full XVs and 3 subs.

Eg:

1sts
1. Bell
2. Porecki
3. Tupou
4. Frost
5. Skelton
6. Holloway
7. M Hooper
8. Valetini
9. McDermott
10. Gordon
11. Koroibete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Nawaqanitawase
15. Kellaway

2nds
1. Slipper
2. Uelese
3. Faumasili
4. Arnold
5. Philip
6. T Hooper
7. McReight
8. Leota
9. White
10. Cooper
11. Perese
12. Foketi
13. Petaia
14. Vunivalu
15. Donaldson

Then 3 of:
Schoupp
Nonggorr
Faessler
Gleeson
Lonergan
Pietsch

I left Lambert out as I think he was just taken to NZ as extra cover in case Slipper had to switch to THP.

NB don’t critique my selections, it’s just an example to illustrate the symmetry in the spread of the positions.

 

[stillmissit]

Tearing an Achillies is done by instant force event. Stretching the ‘top and bottom’ of a Tendon isn’t really applicable.

You could make an argument that a lack of fitness has required out players to overexert to keep up with opponents, then raising the chance of injury.

Taken too long. Tells me there was no real plan. Did hear about the Tahs trying to get bigger but this will take away from ground fitness for this year. These things are done in stages in other sports around the world. We seem to be trying to do it all at once. Results in minimal gains in both.

The physio I saw when I did mine stated that stretching the Achilles by forcing the foot upwards without bending the knee only stretches the top part, which is why many people do an Achilles. Are you in that world?

You are right that this has taken too long. This is a bloody pro sport and significant injuries that are having a major impact on a team should be top priority if your S&C team are capable.

 

[dru]

I imagine there's an implicit understanding.

I hear what you are saying Highlander but tosh to implicit understanding.

BUT, being tricky-dicky tends to back-fire and I hope that EJ (Eddie Jones) is not overly ambitious around expectations on tweaking the squad for supposed benefits (as Cheika did).

 

[Linerunner2023]

It’s interesting
There is certainly some trainers in the squad atm
Schoupp, faesler, Gleeson, Lonergan, Donaldson, Foketi and pietsch
Are these guys still good chances to make RWC 2023?
still think there is a chance Samu, hodge and Wright are a chance to come back
I’d have hodge over Donaldson and Wright over both Suli and pietsch
Why aren’t these guys going back to club rugby for some game time?

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It’s interesting
There is certainly some trainers in the squad atm
Schoupp, faesler, Gleeson, Lonergan, Donaldson, Foketi and pietsch
Are these guys still good chances to make RWC 2023?
still think there is a chance Samu, hodge and Wright are a chance to come back
I’d have hodge over Donaldson and Wright over both Suli and pietsch
Why aren’t these guys going back to club rugby for some game time?

Hodge and Kemeny have played Shute Shield the last round. Not sure about any others in different comps. These guys are going to be at least 2 months from a meaningful game if they get a call up.

 

[Linerunner2023]

Hodge and Kemeny have played Shute Shield the last round. Not sure about any others in different comps. These guys are going to be at least 2 months from a meaningful game if they get a call up.

Yes I see gibbon and nongurr went straight back to Qld premier rugby
Wright and Samu played John dent cup
But yes these 7 or 8 guys have no game time in months
Are they even in with a chance of the squad? Or are guys going to get back around them?

 

[Mr Pilfer]

Yes I see gibbon and nongurr went straight back to Qld premier rugby
Wright and Samu played John dent cup
But yes these 7 or 8 guys have no game time in months
Are they even in with a chance of the squad? Or are guys going to get back around them?

Yes in hindsight it would have made more sense to play all these guys for Australia A if Eddie was not planning to play them. We have ended up with the 1st and 3rd team getting game time but not the ones floating in the middle

 

[RebelYell]

I have no doubt we will still see 2-3 players from outside this current squad called up for the RWC squad - and that's before injury. Samu, Neville, Wright & Hodge the most likely IMO

 

[Tomikin]

Yes in hindsight it would have made more sense to play all these guys for Australia A if Eddie was not planning to play them. We have ended up with the 1st and 3rd team getting game time but not the ones floating in the middle

unless EJ (Eddie Jones)'s got a bunch of tackle bag holders at training and sent the other guys off to get game time.

 

[KOB1987]

I have no doubt we will still see 2-3 players from outside this current squad called up for the RWC squad - and that's before injury. Samu, Neville, Wright & Hodge the most likely IMO

I’m not sure who Samu and Neville would displace - he seems to have settled on his 4 second rowers, similar with the back row, and one of the existing ones there could be cut. Wright or Hodge could come in for a less versatile option like Vunivalu though. When is the squad announced, I know NZ do theirs on Monday?

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Neville could very well push Arnold out. He has the start this week to show it. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Wright over Vunivalu because he can play the entire back 3.

 

[wamberal]

Neville could very well push Arnold out. He has the start this week to show it. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Wright over Vunivalu because he can play the entire back 3.

Eddie has given Vunivalu a chance, but he hasn't really grabbed a spot.

 

[Homer]

Eddie has given Vunivalu a chance, but he hasn't really grabbed a spot.

Eddie loves Vunivalu for some unknown reason and if Wright or someone else misses out for him it will be a tragedy. Wright got booted for a bad game but Vunivalu is still with the squad so would assume he is a lock like Donaldson who hasnt played in weeks.

Gleeson, Foketi, Pietsch and Lonergan desperately need more footy in them prior to the cup, and taking every prop in Australia to train and not play is just dumb.

 

[Tomthumb]

I have no doubt we will still see 2-3 players from outside this current squad called up for the RWC squad - and that's before injury. Samu, Neville, Wright & Hodge the most likely IMO

Would be very surprised if Neville comes in now, hasn’t been in the squad at any time

and I for one am well and truly over the Hodge experience

 

[Eddie's Eyebrows]

I have no doubt we will still see 2-3 players from outside this current squad called up for the RWC squad - and that's before injury. Samu, Neville, Wright & Hodge the most likely IMO

What's everyone's thoughts on the chances of an outside smokey being called up?

Max Jorgensen had an MCL injury in May (3 months recover) and he's been listed as 'not considered due to injury' at every squad announcement meaning he's on the radar.