Wallabies 2023

[The Ghost of Raelene]

There is something very wrong with our training and conditioning that is causing these raft of injuries. Achilles injuries, generally are caused by not stretching the top and bottom of it.

Tearing an Achillies is done by instant force event. Stretching the ‘top and bottom’ of a Tendon isn’t really applicable.

You could make an argument that a lack of fitness has required out players to overexert to keep up with opponents, then raising the chance of injury.

I think you are right but if that is true our chances of getting out of our pool are under serious threat. We have to get the squad to a state where they can compete effectively. That's not going to be helped if they cannot train at a level that keeps them competitive. I thought this was going to be fixed during Rennie's time?

Taken too long. Tells me there was no real plan. Did hear about the Tahs trying to get bigger but this will take away from ground fitness for this year. These things are done in stages in other sports around the world. We seem to be trying to do it all at once. Results in minimal gains in both.

 

[Namerican]

I find it hard to believe that neither Rennie nor Jones would have them on a modern S&C program. Maybe the Super Rugby clubs aren't as good with it, IDK.

Rennie/Jones are smart and top level coaches. They know how important S&C is to the modern game.

Unless there's some compelling evidence or anyone has an inside track on what training they do relative to other countries, it seems a bit speculative.

If I remember correctly Retallick, Cane, Beauden, McKenzie, NMS, Reece, Coles, Bower, Haviland, Crotty and many others have missed large chunks of games due to injury.

At one point the Crusaders were missing 8 all-blacks in a playoff game no less.

I think we only notice the Aus injuries so much as the depth is so bad. Reece did his knee I think, out for RWC, Telea steps in and looks even better than Reece.

Right now the Wallabies are missing Rodda, AAA, Tupou, Banks, Hooper, Ikitau? Maybe 3 of them will be OK in 4-6 weeks.

 

[SouthernX]

I find it hard to believe that neither Rennie nor Jones would have them on a modern S&C program. Maybe the Super Rugby clubs aren't as good with it, IDK.

Rennie/Jones are smart and top level coaches. They know how important S&C is to the modern game.

Unless there's some compelling evidence or anyone has an inside track on what training they do relative to other countries, it seems a bit speculative.

If I remember correctly Retallick, Cane, Beauden, McKenzie, NMS, Reece, Coles, Bower, Haviland, Crotty and many others have missed large chunks of games due to injury.

At one point the Crusaders were missing 8 all-blacks in a playoff game no less.

I think we only notice the Aus injuries so much as the depth is so bad. Reece did his knee I think, out for RWC, Telea steps in and looks even better than Reece.

Right now the Wallabies are missing Rodda, AAA, Tupou, Banks, Hooper, Ikitau? Maybe 3 of them will be OK in 4-6 weeks.

Mate your post sounds more like the wallabies need depths (like ABs) and not a new S&C coach.

Tell me more about NZ NPC

 

[Wilson]

I thought Jono Lance made an interesting point on the pick and drive podcast this week - a big part of the wallabies fitness issue is their inability to pace themselves. We came out of the blocks so hard last week doing everything at 100% where as New Zealand did a better job of keeping everything steady at 70% and surging to 100% as required.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

That is a great point. They squeeze you until you break unlike the Wallabies trying to blow the doors off.

Not surprising the ABs and Melbourne Storm have shared in the past. They do the same thing for the last 20 years. You can see Penrith do it now. We don't care if it's 0/0 after 30 mins. When you slow down and were still shoulder to shoulder with you, we are going to cruise past you and even put a 15 min window of upping the pace to see if you break.

 

[qwerty51]

LHP: Bell, Slipper, Gibbon [Sio]
Hookers: Porecki, Mafi, Uelese [Lonergan/Fainga'a]
THP: Tupou, Ala'alatoa, Pone [HJ-H]
Locks: Frost, Skelton, Phillip, Rodda [Richie Arnold]
Backrow: Valetini, Holloway, Gleeson, Wilkin, Hanigan, Wilson [Wright/Leota]
Scrumhalves: White, Lonergan, McDermott [J Gordon]
Flyhalves: Quade, Foley [C Gordon]
Centres: Kerevi, Ikitau, Foketi, Hodge [JO'C]
Outside backs: Korobiete, Kellaway, Wright, Petaia, Mark Na. [Pietsch]

I posted this squad back at the start of May, the last Wallabies 23 is in before the squad gets announced, here's the changes:

LHP: Bell, Slipper, Schoupp
Hookers: Porecki, Uelese, Faessler
THP: Tupou, Pone, Nonggorr
Locks: Frost, Skelton, Phillip, Arnold
Backrow: Valetini, Holloway, Leota, McReight, Tom Hooper, M Hooper (got this very wrong)
Scrumhalves: White, McDermott, Lonergan
Flyhalves: Quade, C Gordon
Centres: Kerevi, Ikitau, Foketi, Perese
Outside backs: Korobiete, Kellaway, Petaia, Mark N (Nawaqanitawase), Vunivalu

I think the only change might be Donaldson over Foketi as the 3rd 10. There's a tiny chance he's going to only name 2 hookers or 2 scrumhalves too.

 

[KOB1987]

Stumbled on an interview with Neil Hatley yesterday where he said there are still around 10 spots for the 33 man RWC squad they are looking to bed down.

I posted this squad back at the start of May, the last Wallabies 23 is in before the squad gets announced, here's the changes:

LHP: Bell, Slipper, Schoupp
Hookers: Porecki, Uelese, Faessler
THP: Tupou, Pone, Nonggorr
Locks: Frost, Skelton, Phillip, Arnold
Backrow: Valetini, Holloway, Leota, McReight, Tom Hooper, M Hooper (got this very wrong)
Scrumhalves: White, McDermott, Lonergan
Flyhalves: Quade, C Gordon
Centres: Kerevi, Ikitau, Foketi, Perese
Outside backs: Korobiete, Kellaway, Wright, Petaia, Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase)

I think the only change might be Hodge over Foketi as the 3rd 10. There's a tiny chance he's going to only name 2 hooker or 2 scrumhalves too.

It's hard to see it being too different to that but they would normally only take 5 props - one of Schoupp and Nonggorr probably won't go, probably take Nonggorr as he is already capped and if we get an injury we can call another one in. From memory Pone played a bit of loosehead earlier on so I'm sure he could handle the pool games there.

M Hooper being ruled out could be the other change, in which case you'd think Gleeson will go. And if he takes Hodge it will probably be over Wright rather than Foketi.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Anyone seen how Matt To'omua is travelling this year. I know it's too late now but I wonder if his name was ever thrown out there as a midfield/10 option.

He never blew me away at Test level but looking at the fact we have a rookie 10, Quade and no stand out backups in the Centres we could definitely do worse.

 

[Tomthumb]

Anyone seen how Matt To'omua is travelling this year. I know it's too late now but I wonder if his name was ever thrown out there as a midfield/10 option.

He never blew me away at Test level but looking at the fact we have a rookie 10, Quade and no stand out backups in the Centres we could definitely do worse.

He fell off a cliff last year at the Rebels

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Fair call. Rebels prior to this year seemed a mess though. Maybe he was part of it I guess.

Just a thought since Quade & Foley have been involved.

 

[Dctarget]

Anyone seen how Matt To'omua is travelling this year. I know it's too late now but I wonder if his name was ever thrown out there as a midfield/10 option.

He never blew me away at Test level but looking at the fact we have a rookie 10, Quade and no stand out backups in the Centres we could definitely do worse.

He played a season in Japan this year but fairly sure he's close to retired, he has some nice business ventures lined up.

Too many concussions and he said his style of play didn't exist anymore and wasn't good for his body. Breaking up with Ellyse Perry was a tragedy (for me at least) though he did get married to his wife the same year... Can't have been too sad about it.

 

[Mike Bishop]

What side of the scrum does Jermaine Ainsley play on? Is he a tight head? Would be a better option than Pone and Nongorr. Should still be eligible as he's only played Maori All Blacks

 

[qwerty51]

What side of the scrum does Jermaine Ainsley play on? Is he a tight head? Would be a better option than Pone and Nongorr. Should still be eligible as he's only played Maori All Blacks

It's a good question whether he's immediately eligible. To be eligible for the All Blacks he has to get approval from World Rugby, does that mean he's no longer eligible for Australia even though he hasn't been capped yet? Not sure..

But anyway, he's playing the night before on the same island..

 

[Mr Pilfer]

I posted this squad back at the start of May, the last Wallabies 23 is in before the squad gets announced, here's the changes:

LHP: Bell, Slipper, Schoupp
Hookers: Porecki, Uelese, Faessler
THP: Tupou, Pone, Nonggorr
Locks: Frost, Skelton, Phillip, Arnold
Backrow: Valetini, Holloway, Leota, McReight, Tom Hooper, M Hooper (got this very wrong)
Scrumhalves: White, McDermott, Lonergan
Flyhalves: Quade, C Gordon
Centres: Kerevi, Ikitau, Foketi, Perese
Outside backs: Korobiete, Kellaway, Wright, Petaia, Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase)

I think the only change might be Hodge over Foketi as the 3rd 10. There's a tiny chance he's going to only name 2 hookers or 2 scrumhalves too.

I am still holding out hope that Pete Samu is in the mix. I also have doubts that Michael Hooper and Ikitau will make it. I think 3 hookers are needed but we could get away with 2 halfbacks to fit someone else in the squad. I think Hodge just needs to be there for that versatility.

I think Eddie has left himself in a dangerous position by consistently picking certain players (e.g. no 3rd hooker or halfback getting a run, picking Arnold, not playing Gleeson or Samu).

If we get pumped this week by 50 then does he suddenly go holy crap I got it all wrong and bring in some new faces (Gleeson, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Harry Wilson, Fainga'a etc)

 

[swingpass]

QUOTE="Mr Pilfer, post: 1346682, member: 20681"]
I am still holding out hope that Pete Samu is in the mix. I also have doubts that Michael Hooper and Ikitau will make it. I think 3 hookers are needed but we could get away with 2 halfbacks to fit someone else in the squad. I think Hodge just needs to be there for that versatility.

I think Eddie has left himself in a dangerous position by consistently picking certain players (e.g. no 3rd hooker or halfback getting a run, picking Arnold, not playing Gleeson or Samu).

If we get pumped this week by 50 then does he suddenly go holy crap I got it all wrong and bring in some new faces (Gleeson, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Harry Wilson, Fainga'a etc)
[/QUOTE]
I wrote earlier in this discussion, Eddies not for turning, and as i predicted, injury aside same 23 except McReight in. There will be no new faces now unless there are injuries.

 

[Braveheart81]

Samu isn't in the squad currently so doesn't seem likely.

There are currently 37:

Props: Bell, Slipper, Tupou, Lambert, Fa'amausili, Nonggorr, Schoupp
Hooker: Porecki, Uelese, Faessler
Lock: Skelton, Arnold, Frost, Philip,
Backrow: Leota, Valetini, M Hooper, T Hooper, Holloway, Gleeson, McReight
Halfback: McDermott, White, Lonergan
Fly half: Gordon, Cooper, Donaldson
Centre: Kerevi, Petaia, Ikitau, Foketi, Perese
Back three: Koroibete, Nawaqanitawase, Kellaway, Vunivalu, Pietsch

So there's four to drop out of there for the RWC squad. I'd be surprised if anyone else comes in.

I would say one prop for certain, one back three player (Vunivalu or Pietsch as Perese also covers wing), one backrower are the most likely cuts. The last player to miss out could be both another back three or another backrower. Both Pietsch and Vunivalu could get cut if Donaldson is your backup fullback. Otherwise do you risk only two options at 10 and drop Donaldson?

 

[KOB1987]

Samu isn't in the squad currently so doesn't seem likely.

There are currently 37:

Props: Bell, Slipper, Tupou, Lambert, Fa'amausili, Nonggorr, Schoupp
Hooker: Porecki, Uelese, Faessler
Lock: Skelton, Arnold, Frost, Philip,
Backrow: Leota, Valetini, M Hooper, T Hooper, Holloway, Gleeson, McReight
Halfback: McDermott, White, Lonergan
Fly half: Gordon, Cooper, Donaldson
Centre: Kerevi, Petaia, Ikitau, Foketi, Perese
Back three: Koroibete, Nawaqanitawase, Kellaway, Vunivalu, Pietsch

So there's four to drop out of there for the RWC squad. I'd be surprised if anyone else comes in.

I would say one prop for certain, one back three player (Vunivalu or Pietsch as Perese also covers wing), one backrower are the most likely cuts. The last player to miss out could be both another back three or another backrower. Both Pietsch and Vunivalu could get cut if Donaldson is your backup fullback. Otherwise do you risk only two options at 10 and drop Donaldson?

I think 2 props will go as we only need one on standby (provided Slipper is there to cover both sides). I think Lonergan is expendable too, noting that Donaldson is listed as 'utility', so I reckon he will get a bench role at least against Georgia and Portugal and cover halfback as well as 10/15.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think 2 props will go as we only need one on standby (provided Slipper is there to cover both sides). I think Lonergan is expendable too, noting that Donaldson is listed as 'utility', so I reckon he will get a bench role at least against Georgia and Portugal and cover halfback as well as 10/15.

I think we have to take 6 props. Too big a risk only having one outside the matchday 23.

Not taking a third halfback is definitely an option although I think it is unlikely.

 

[Wilson]

Don't forget Eddie has planned out the ~15 man shadow squad in the UK with the Barbarians, it definitely gives him some freedom in the early stages around a 3rd halfback/hooker/fly half and 6th prop.

The other big question is going to be how many not quite fit players he selects in the initial squad - do players like Tupou, Hooper and Ikitau make it even if they're not fit for the warm up game against France or even the first round against Georgia, or do they sit with the shadow squad on the expectation that there will be injuries and opportunity to bring them in as they regain match fitness with the barbarians?

 

[qwerty51]

Everyone realises there is a 48 hour stand down period before a replacement can play right? Losing a prop, halfback or hooker 2 days before a match would be a disaster if you’re only taking 2 of each.

also replaced players cannot come back, if Tupou tweaks something even a week before a match but it’s only a 1-2 week injury what do we do then? Or Porecki or Tate.

A shadow squad in the UK helps the transition but it doesn’t do anything for the flexibility of a squad at all.

3 of each is a must.