Wallabies 2023

[Slim 293]

Precisely…

New Zealand’s professional players fall back into a 14 team NPC competition…

Australian players are spread across 5 different amateur competitions totaling 47 teams.

 

[cyclopath]

Kevin, At the moment we have Holloway and Valetini one runs the lineout and the other is an option jumper. Our issue is not the lack of a big 7 (although I would like one, Wright?) the issue is the limited number of our team that can pilfer. The French are a great example of a pilfering team they have a centre name? who is as good a pilferer as I have seen.

This.
The narrative that has existed in Oz rugby for years that certain players are responsible for pilfering is absurd. Great teams have multiples of them. Backs and forwards. And I agree the idea of a taller 7 who provides another lineout option is a good one. Wright has not made himself compelling enough, but he is the prototype. Areas where we lag behind the better teams...

 

[Linerunner2023]

Lol NZ players play less club rugby than we do. They play NPC and the very occasional club game if there is strangely a week with no Super Rugby or NPC.

Can we just stop this narrative? Australian players play more amateur rugby than any other country.

Yes this is part of what I have stated
1. There are many super rugby players in club rugby - however filtered through 47 sides in 5 comps
2. Many players are only just getting back to club rugby which the regular season finishes in a couple of weeks so 10 games may be a stretch
3. Main point was Aus rugby wants better connection with club and super rugby - but the top players including wallabies and Aus A players had not played rugby in several weeks and it has showed on the results
4. You only improve so much training - and we are worried about getting injured when this can happen at training anyway
5. Aus a players only back this weekend for the first time with only couple of weeks left
6. There are still wallabies squad members that haven’t played and most likely won’t in next 2 weeks like Donaldson and pietsch so they should be heading back too
7. Nz get 15 super games of more and similar NPC so closer to 30
8. Aus get 15 super and for the Aus a member only coupe to club games before finals

 

[emuarse]

I think the suggestion of Samu or Gleeson at 7 is more a reflection of what Hooper and McReight aren't providing. Hooper looks well off his best and McReight didn't exactly grab the opportunity with both hands last weekend. Both Hooper and McReight have looked a little lightweight in TRC so far. What's the value of an athletic mobile backrower if they can't physically match it at the breakdown.

I just don't see Samu nor Gleeson getting to the breakdowns fast enough playing at 7.
They can be impact players with their size and speed therefore at 6.

 

[wamberal]

I just don't see Samu nor Gleeson getting to the breakdowns fast enough playing at 7.
They can be impact players with their size and speed therefore at 6.

Gleeson is the fastest of our forwards apparently. Mind you, experience counts for a good #7.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I just don't see Samu nor Gleeson getting to the breakdowns fast enough playing at 7.
They can be impact players with their size and speed therefore at 6.

Perhaps the idea of playing two larger players on the side is to have a left 6 and a right 6? So many teams seem to be playing a bigger body at 7 these days and it has an obvious benefit in tightening up the defences. Our best 7s, Hooper and McReight, might be a bit quicker to the breakdown, but particularly in Michael Hooper's case over the past couple of years, he is down on physicality at the breakdown. Neither of them make a swag of turnovers, indeed some games they don't make any, so if they are somewhat ineffective and easily get dominated by the larger bodies in the opposition then its almost like going into the match with half a player compared with the opposition. Now, if it becomes the responsibility of every player to be hard at the breakdown and to look to pilfer, it looks like a team might be better off with the bigger body playing like a second No 6 in the side.

 

[emuarse]

Despite the stats and hard facts, in the eyes of some size queens, he will always be 'too small'

So for McReight's paudits & criticisms of his player contributions , you have to weigh up the pros Vs the cons.
For me, he is very much in the positive as opposed to say a Gleeson who can make some good breaks up the field (metres gained), but is not as influencial in defense or breakdowns.

 

[KOB1987]

It sounds like M Hooper won't be available for the first game so it will be interesting to see what Eddie does. I thought McReight was OK without asserting himself as a must have in the team. If he goes for a bigger body he is going to want a bit of mobility. Does that put Frost in the frame for the #6 jersey? How would Holloway and Leota go as the flankers? I think Gleeson will be the reserve loosie trialing for Samu's role and if he wants to try that utility thing again, now that Kemeny is back playing club rugby maybe Pietsch will be #23, with a 5:3 split?

Also confirmed that Kellaway and Petaia are the candidates for #15.

 

[Derpus]

Perhaps the idea of playing two larger players on the side is to have a left 6 and a right 6? So many teams seem to be playing a bigger body at 7 these days and it has an obvious benefit in tightening up the defences. Our best 7s, Hooper and McReight, might be a bit quicker to the breakdown, but particularly in Michael Hooper's case over the past couple of years, he is down on physicality at the breakdown. Neither of them make a swag of turnovers, indeed some games they don't make any, so if they are somewhat ineffective and easily get dominated by the larger bodies in the opposition then its almost like going into the match with half a player compared with the opposition. Now, if it becomes the responsibility of every player to be hard at the breakdown and to look to pilfer, it looks like a team might be better off with the bigger body playing like a second No 6 in the side.

Hooper's strength has never been pilfering and it has never needed to be. He gets through a mountain of work because he is the most athletic forward on the field. Regularly tops the tackle count and hits the most rucks in offence and defence. Usually the best link play in the forwards, etc. Granted after 110+ appearances he hasnt been able to maintain the standard he once met.

I think the whole point people have been making is that maybe the sole metric we use to measure a 7's contributions shouldn't be pilfering as that should these days be a team wide ability.

You get another 6 in you might get a bit more grunt in the carry and another lineout target but you trade that off in work rate and defensive capability, lose speed off the scrum, lose a link man in attack, etc. Maybe it's worth it, but I'm skeptical. We can already barely secure our own ball and you want to make our pack even slower?

 

[Derpus]

Gleeson is the fastest of our forwards apparently. Mind you, experience counts for a good #7.

Fastest in a straight line =/= fastest to rucks around the park.

 

[Confucius Say]

Unless you have a 12/13 that are good at the breakdown (rare) you need a quick 7 with a high work rate to secure ball. All too often you see backs ineffective clean out or worse they watch the opposition pilfer.

 

[dru]

Perhaps the idea of playing two larger players on the side is to have a left 6 and a right 6? So many teams seem to be playing a bigger body at 7 these days and it has an obvious benefit in tightening up the defences. Our best 7s, Hooper and McReight, might be a bit quicker to the breakdown, but particularly in Michael Hooper's case over the past couple of years, he is down on physicality at the breakdown. Neither of them make a swag of turnovers, indeed some games they don't make any, so if they are somewhat ineffective and easily get dominated by the larger bodies in the opposition then its almost like going into the match with half a player compared with the opposition. Now, if it becomes the responsibility of every player to be hard at the breakdown and to look to pilfer, it looks like a team might be better off with the bigger body playing like a second No 6 in the side.

From recollection when we were playing the double 7 in Australia, Eddie was playing the double 6 in England.

 

[stillmissit]

This is for Derpus and any of you who think it is OK to focus on the D and, by doing so, give poor support to your fellow players.

Watch from 5:30 to 6:15. A player from the 1920s for Derpus to take the piss out of?

 

[Linerunner2023]

A little bit of hope for the hooker position
BPA signed with force for 2023
Bring him in

 

[rugbyAU]

A little bit of hope for the hooker position
BPA signed with force for 2023
Bring him in

Excellent news, he is our best hooker and a good scrummager needs to be in the WC squad for us to go deep, will also be good to slightly free up overseas based selections now he is back in Aus

 

[KOB1987]

Excellent news, he is our best hooker and a good scrummager needs to be in the WC squad for us to go deep, will also be good to slightly free up overseas based selections now he is back in Aus

He is busted though isn’t he? I think everyone on the forum would be happy to have him in the squad, the ankle injury was reported as season ending in April - it’s a different season up there obviously but that’s only 3 months ago. Might be a stretch to have him fit? He surely would have been one of ‘the 5’ if he was fit.

 

[Derpus]

This is for Derpus and any of you who think it is OK to focus on the D and, by doing so, give poor support to your fellow players.

Watch from 5:30 to 6:15. A player from the 1920s for Derpus to take the piss out of?

I do love me some D.

So what's your point. The dude talks about securing ruck ball in attack. We are going to be able to do that better with less mobile forwards? Maybe a statistical comparison of the number of offensive rucks Hooper and McReight hit compared to everyone else would be useful here.

 

[stillmissit]

I do love me some D.

So what's your point. The dude talks about securing ruck ball in attack. We are going to be able to do that better with less mobile forwards? Maybe a statistical comparison of the number of offensive rucks Hooper and McReight hit compared to everyone else would be useful here.

No, it wouldn't. The more interesting stat is how many rucks we set and how many we lose, from memory in the ARG match we set 55 and lost 7 the worst performance in this comp. Then the other stat is how many we commit to attacking rucks v defensive rucks which would of course show up how Hooper/McRight are lone soldiers. Many think we have a pilferer and if he doesn't win the ball then 'it's not my fault as I'm in the D to protect our line' (BS).
BTW His name is not Dude, it's Willie John McBride and is considered along with Colin Meads as one of the best locks ever.

 

[Derpus]

Sounds like we agree, then.

 

[LeCheese]

It sounds like M Hooper won't be available for the first game so it will be interesting to see what Eddie does.

Interesting as he was adamant he'd be fit for next game when questioned at both the Argies game and on the GBRA podcast.

Good they're being careful though after the recent run of minor calf injuries turning into ruptured achilles...