Wallabies 2023

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Cheik started off well but unfortunately didn't evolve as the game did and stubbornly stuck to a game plan that got found out. It wasn't helped by our lack of kicking prowess in the 10/15 positions.

EJ (Eddie Jones) must have loved to coach against him.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Cheika is a good coach and a knowledgeable rugby man but his greatest failure was when he bought in to the trap of the ideology around the ‘Australian Way’. Which didn’t line up to the reality of how rugby is played in the modern day.

 

[Ignoto]

Has Australian rugby ever been about running it from inside your own 22 though?

I would have thought Australian rugby was playing smart rugby and reducing risk. So if you're in your 22, you clear it and give your defence an opportunity to turn the ball over.

For how much Deans got mocked his mantra is what weve been trying the emulate for years "heads up rugby" or "playing what's in front of you".

That all regressed under Chieka.

 

[liquor box]

Has Australian rugby ever been about running it from inside your own 22 though?

I would have thought Australian rugby was playing smart rugby and reducing risk. So if you're in your 22, you clear it and give your defence an opportunity to turn the ball over.

For how much Deans got mocked his mantra is what weve been trying the emulate for years "heads up rugby" or "playing what's in front of you".

That all regressed under Chieka.

the problem is that when we clear it from our 22 it only goes to the 40m line.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is this trolling?

They're both NSW developed.

At least McKenzie didn't drop Horwill for Mumm.

There is an overwhelming position within Queensland rugby fans that McKenzie was unfairly brought down by NSW elements and that Cheika was then terrible.

McKenzie is viewed far more favourably by Queenslanders than anyone else in my view.

 

[Rob42]

Do we need to rename this thread to "Wallabies 2012-2019 and associated whinging about coaches"?

 

[Ignoto]

There is an overwhelming position within Queensland rugby fans that McKenzie was unfairly brought down by NSW elements and that Cheika was then terrible.

McKenzie is viewed far more favourably by Queenslanders than anyone else in my view.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah, but in order to sack Beale, McKenzie would have had to take part in a hearing and there was no way he was doing that.

 

[Froggy]

Cheika's record completely contradicts any 'worst ever' comment (Premierships with Randwick, Leinster, Waratahs, WC final with Wallabies), however he clearly ran out of ideas the longer he went with the Wallabies, and stuck with games plans that he didn't have the players to execute. Imo his biggest fault was an inability to react to what was happening and make changes.
Having said that, he really was lacking available talent in some crucial positions, and while sticking with some selections that many (including me) would have wanted him to change, the alternatives really were not that appealing.

 

[qwerty51]

Just re-inventing history with "sacking Beale instead of Link" are we.

 

[Ignoto]

Just re-inventing history with "sacking Beale instead of Link" are we.

Is that meant to be; both should have gone or that Beale never was an option at being forced out?

 

[Braveheart81]

Is that meant to be; both should have gone or that Beale never was an option at being forced out?

I think his point was that Link didn't get sacked. He resigned.

 

[Sword of Justice]

There is an overwhelming position within Queensland rugby fans that McKenzie was unfairly brought down by NSW elements and that Cheika was then terrible.

McKenzie is viewed far more favourably by Queenslanders than anyone else in my view.

It was obviously unfair in a broad sense of the word but I'm not aware of a conspiracy in the minds of Qld fans about Moore Park offices working against McKenzie, maybe that they could gave supported him better. Perhaps this is something you just made up?

I think many Rugby fans outside of NSW ascribe blame for that event to an individual, so perhaps that's what you meant by elements of NSW.

Anyway, as others have noted this discussion should be about the thinking of our current coach and I'd argue that our current game management tactics do appear to be much more balanced now. However this year is the first of Rennie's tenure that I think that results will be the sole judge of his performance and a series win at home would equate a C grade, with dominant performances able to bump that up.

 

[Slim 293]

At least McKenzie didn't drop Horwill for Mumm.

No, he dumped him as captain and then dropped him for Sam Carter...

 

[Braveheart81]

Cheika's biggest fault in wanting to stick with the same style regardless of opposition is that premise is all well and good when you're stronger than your opposition but it doesn't work when you're not.

In 2015 when we were playing some great rugby it generally worked really well. Later on, not so much.

 

[Braveheart81]

No, he dumped him as captain and then dropped him for Sam Carter...

McKenzie effectively picked three players within the team to captain ahead of Horwill only a few tests after taking charge. First it was Mowen for the EOYT, then Moore for the first minute of the French series then Hooper.

 

[qwerty51]

Yeah exactly, NZ never change their style for the opposition because they can dictate their style on them. This has probably been their downfall lately as the NH have certainly gotten stronger and now they can’t.

Cheika just became too arrogant and stubborn and had to go, great coach at the start of terms and clearly a great motivator. Players all seem to like him too.

 

[Marce]

Cheiks isn't a bad coach clearly (or wasn't). World Cup final plus a couple of titles with different teams.

He was a bad coach for the Wallabies by the end though. Ideally he would have moved on sooner but there were a variety of factors preventing that.

He's a good motivational coach for short periods

 

[barbarian]

The Link vs Beale thing is a hard hypothetical, mainly because we still don't know what was really happening behind the scenes. Which is funny these days when dirty laundry is aired minutes after a coach/player leaving the room.

Was the Beale thing indicative of broader problems in the dressing room, which his departure may have exacerbated? Or would KBs leaving help the general dynamic? It's impossible to know the answer unless you were there. Which none of us were.

The boring answer is I don't think either would have made an enormous difference to our fortunes today. The McKenzie Wallabies were really no better or worse than the Deans Wallabies, and the Cheika Wallabies afterwards (barring the World Cup run). Taking Beale out of that mix probably wouldn't have helped or hindered that.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the one thing the period since has shown is that Deans was not nearly as bad as the Wallabies coach as many viewed at the time.