Wallabies 2023

[Braveheart81]

Any player that wants to make themselves a more valuable asset to the team should be out there practicing. The narrative that the 10 needs to be a place kicker is rubbish. Id rather the 10 focus on being a good game manager, ball player and line runner first. Let someone else practice their kicking. If they already are a talented kicker and that is part of their selection then thats great, but i dont see kicking as part of the reason Carter was selected.

On the flip side if he does kick for rebs this year and it comes good, then thats a bonus

This is correct. There really needs to be some ownership from the players themselves

I get what you're both saying but I also don't think this has much basis in reality.

Based on the last season, the only player (aside from Gordon) in the backline who would improve their selection potential would be Kellaway. If he was a better goal kicker than Gordon and close to Donaldson he would have never lost his spot in the team.

It's all well and good to say that others should be practicing their kicking but as it stands, it won't affect the selection chances of any of our centres or wings.

Gordon's poor goal kicking resulted in Donaldson getting selected to play fullback. When Gordon produced a couple of mediocre performances at 10 it became an easy choice to drop him.

I don't think that is going to change in 2024. Ryan Lonergan would seemingly be the only player anywhere close to selection who could be the first choice goal kicker. It's very likely that goal kicking will be a significant part of the selection criteria of the 10.

 

[Tomthumb]

I get what you're both saying but I also don't think this has much basis in reality.

Based on the last season, the only player (aside from Gordon) in the backline who would improve their selection potential would be Kellaway. If he was a better goal kicker than Gordon and close to Donaldson he would have never lost his spot in the team.

It's all well and good to say that others should be practicing their kicking but as it stands, it won't affect the selection chances of any of our centres or wings.

Gordon's poor goal kicking resulted in Donaldson getting selected to play fullback. When Gordon produced a couple of mediocre performances at 10 it became an easy choice to drop him.

I don't think that is going to change in 2024. Ryan Lonergan would seemingly be the only player anywhere close to selection who could be the first choice goal kicker. It's very likely that goal kicking will be a significant part of the selection criteria of the 10.

I get what your saying, but I would hope professional rugby players wouldn't have that attitude

These guys should be doing everything they can to become better players at every facet, that's what being a professional sportsperson is all about

If they are deciding they don't have to bother to improve because they are already in the team, then we aren't winning anything

 

[Braveheart81]

I get what your saying, but I would hope professional rugby players wouldn't have that attitude

These guys should be doing everything they can to become better players at every facet, that's what being a professional sportsperson is all about

If they are deciding they don't have to bother to improve because they are already in the team, then we aren't winning anything

There's limited time to train. If you play on the wing are you going to spend your extra time trying to become a goal kicker or work on catching contested high balls?

For anyone that isn't already a good goal kicker, dedicating time to it is almost certainly going to be a waste of time whereas spending that time on skills essential to your position is going to improve your selection prospects.

It's always going to be Carter Gordon's problem that until he is considered a reliable goal kicker at test level then he needs to be significantly better at 10 than the next guy up to keep his spot.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

If he is going to kick for the Rebels though I would expect he is putting in extras though. Not sure who else in their line-up has the ability with Hodge gone.

Critiques of his play will be greater if we are forced to select others in a side purely because we lack kicking. Is this fair on Carter? No. But he can lock a job away if he adds the skill to a high level.

I hope someone like Jorgenson can develop his goal kicking and JS has kicked well in the past season in the NRL. If this is the case then problem solved...

 

[Ignoto]

If you play on the wing are you going to spend your extra time trying to become a goal kicker or work on catching contested high balls?

It didn't seem to be a problem for Burke, Roff or Jordie Barrett. Outside backs are the perfect candidates to be kickers as generally speaking they're not replaced unless injured.

Compare to that to a forward, the front 3 all go off and the back 5 have 30-50% chance to be the one that's off.

You're right that it takes time away from other aspects, but why is this an excuse? With how close or losses were during Rennies reign, one extra kick would have won a few games for us.

 

[Tomthumb]

There's limited time to train. If you play on the wing are you going to spend your extra time trying to become a goal kicker or work on catching contested high balls?

Honestly, I wonder if they are spending extra time on the rugby field full stop

 

[Derpus]

Honestly, I wonder if they are spending extra time on the rugby field full stop

Do you spend extra time at work? I sure as fuck don't.

 

[Tomthumb]

Do you spend extra time at work? I sure as fuck don't.

If I was underperforming at my job, of course I would

 

[Ignoto]

Do you spend extra time at work? I sure as fuck don't.

If my salary had a component of match and win fees I would be doing what I could to ensure I was a better selection candidate.

If I was a good kicker I would also tie my kick percentage to be part of my KPI component.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Do you spend extra time at work? I sure as fuck don't.

Unfortunately, yes. Regardless though these players don't actually have that many hours on a weekly basis and if 3 hours of kicking training in addition to core training a week is too much for some then I'll happily put my hand up. It's not heavy work.

 

[Derpus]

Unfortunately, yes. Regardless though these players don't actually have that many hours on a weekly basis and if 3 hours of kicking training in addition to core training a week is too much for some then I'll happily put my hand up. It's not heavy work.

I mean, I guess it's good you are willing to do additional unpaid work but I somehow doubt you are our goalkicking solution.

 

[Sword of Justice]

I mean, I guess it's good you are willing to do additional unpaid work but I somehow doubt you are our goalkicking solution.

Your doubts are well founded.

 

[Derpus]

If my salary had a component of match and win fees I would be doing what I could to ensure I was a better selection candidate.

If I was a good kicker I would also tie my kick percentage to be part of my KPI component.

I don't know how realistic this is these days. If I was a player I wouldn't tie shit to KPIs unless I absolutely had no choice.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

How common is this in Rugby these days?

NFL is king of the KPIs traditionally but it seems going out of fashion with the players after the guaranteed money even if it is slightly less than the potential total offered in the contract full of KPIs.

 

[Braveheart81]

It didn't seem to be a problem for Burke, Roff or Jordie Barrett. Outside backs are the perfect candidates to be kickers as generally speaking they're not replaced unless injured.

Compare to that to a forward, the front 3 all go off and the back 5 have 30-50% chance to be the one that's off.

You're right that it takes time away from other aspects, but why is this an excuse? With how close or losses were during Rennies reign, one extra kick would have won a few games for us.

Matt Burke is one of the best goal kickers we've ever had. You would assume that he was always the best goal kicker in the sides he played in and continued to practice the skill.

Joe Roff is something of an anomaly. Outside of a relatively brief period he wasn't the first choice goal kicker. He presumably did practice it a substantial amount.

Jordie Barrett is just a freak. You'd assume that some aspect of his kicking prowess is that he did a lot of training trying to keep up with his brother.

I'm unsure how any of this matters though. Who in the Wallabies team that doesn't currently kick goals is about to become a test level goal kicker? Why would any of those close losses have changed if the second and third best goal kickers had practiced a bit more. They still wouldn't have taken the kick.

 

[HogansHeros]

Not sure why kicking duties have been restricted to a backs only skill. Have we forgotten about John Eales?

Im not saying everyone should be practicing kicking, anyone who has some natural talent in the skill should work on it, make themselves more selectable. Not just a burden on the 10.

This is not an argument only for right now looking at the current crop of players, but a shift in attitude.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I bet Bell would kick 50% right now.

Heel into the ground, ball down, 2 step back, 2 step in, bam over the black dot.

Wallabies 3, ABs 24

 

[Rebel man]

Not sure why kicking duties have been restricted to a backs only skill. Have we forgotten about John Eales?

Im not saying everyone should be practicing kicking, anyone who has some natural talent in the skill should work on it, make themselves more selectable. Not just a burden on the 10.

This is not an argument only for right now looking at the current crop of players, but a shift in attitude.

Everyone has to be able to catch, pass, run, tackle and kick. It’s not hard kicking is a basic skill furthermore players need to be able to kick both feet.

 

[Derpus]

Not sure why kicking duties have been restricted to a backs only skill. Have we forgotten about John Eales?

Im not saying everyone should be practicing kicking, anyone who has some natural talent in the skill should work on it, make themselves more selectable. Not just a burden on the 10.

This is not an argument only for right now looking at the current crop of players, but a shift in attitude.

Its an effect of the increased specialisation brought on by professionalism. Forwards have enough shit to master as it is with all the set pieces.

 

[PhilClinton]

Interesting takes from a couple of posters.

Head down to clubland 30mins before training is due to start and most nights you’ll find a pod of hookers working on their throws, pod of halfbacks passing off the deck and a group of kickers having shots at goal.

So I’m not sure a lack of time to practice is really a fair excuse if the bloke working 9-5 with three kids can manage to punt off 15 attempts at goal on Tuesday arvo.