Wallabies 2023

[Micheal]

I think all the conversations about the Wallabies head coach are focusing on the wrong point.

For a while now we've had international players coming into Australian Super Rugby setups and being absolutely shocked about the level of coaching provided there. We have a novice professional coach at the Waratahs in Coleman, we've had the Reds coached by a novice for a number of years in Thorn, and we have subpar offerings in Foote / Larkham / Cron at the other franchises.

The Wallabies coach doesn't spend enough time with the players each year to drive material results.

We should instead be focusing on the coaching staff at our Super Rugby franchises, and RA should be throwing the cheque book at coaches for our Super Rugby teams, then the Aus U20s and the Aus U18s, in that order of priority.

Can you imagine how much better our Wallabies team would be if the franchises were coached by elite staff? That's the level that needs changing, and if that level is humming then the Wallabies could be coached by a cheeseburger and they'd perform better than they do now.

 

[LeCheese]

I think all the conversations about the Wallabies head coach are focusing on the wrong point.

For a while now we've had international players coming into Australian Super Rugby setups and being absolutely shocked about the level of coaching provided there. We have a novice professional coach at the Waratahs in Coleman, we've had the Reds coached by a novice for a number of years in Thorn, and we have subpar offerings in Foote / Larkham / Cron at the other franchises.

The Wallabies coach doesn't spend enough time with the players each year to drive material results.

We should instead be focusing on the coaching staff at our Super Rugby franchises, and Rugby Australia should be throwing the cheque book at coaches for our Super Rugby teams, then the Aus U20s and the Aus U18s, in that order of priority.

Can you imagine how much better our Wallabies team would be if the franchises were coached by elite staff? That's the level that needs changing, and if that level is humming then the Wallabies could be coached by a cheeseburger and they'd perform better than they do now.

I mean, is this not exactly what has been proposed by RA in the centralisation model?

 

[The Red Baron]

Just stumbled across this. Bloody hell, it didn't age very well at all:

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don’t think the national coach would make a difference. We need a change in style way before our players get together for the national squad. What Ireland have done is getting many of the systems playing the same style from school boys to national team.

The real question is "Whose playing style will be the one imposed on the others?". The only playing style with consistent success in this country has been the Brumbies' plan of play tight in the first half and open up in the second. But no fan of any of the other franchises seems to want to play that style. They mostly seem to want the "Australian Way" which nobody seems to be able to define of describe.

I'd suggest that imposing the Tahs game plan, for example, as a centralised style will see all franchises deteriorate. Honestly, who here would like to see all franchises playing the Brumbies' style outside of the two or three of us who have remained here despite the vitriol that often gets directed at our team?

 

[Bullrush]

There really is only one way to win rugby games consistently and that’s to win upfront. The old cliches of ‘you have to earn the right to go wide’ and ‘forwards win games, backs decide by how much’ are still true.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t a style than can be ‘Australian’…..but not at the expense of getting the basics right.

 

[Alex Sharpe]

I think having uniformity of playing style across teams is dangerous territory.

From a spectator point of view, one the great things about rugby is watching teams of contrasting styles compete. watching teams that attack and defend with the same concepts at Super Rugby, Club, Schoolboy level will take a great deal of flavour out of the game.

I think it will also detract from developing players ability to adapt to different playing styles. If we are used to playing teams domestically that all use the same principles of play, we will get found out big time against South African or English teams that play a different style of rugby.

I certainly see the advantages for player S&C, but have scepticism when it comes to playing style.

I know we look at Ireland as a success story of a centralized model, but they have routinely fallen short at every world cup cycle. Maybe because of a lack of flexibility in thinking under the spotlight of a World Cup QF.

 

[Goosestep]

There really is only one way to win rugby games consistently and that’s to win upfront. The old cliches of ‘you have to earn the right to go wide’ and ‘forwards win games, backs decide by how much’ are still true.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t a style than can be ‘Australian’…..but not at the expense of getting the basics right.

yes, we need to stop
Worrying about being flashy and impressing other codes with “running rugby” .. and just focus on winning .

 

[Braveheart81]

…..but not at the expense of getting the basics right.

If there's centralisation of ideas this is where it needs to start, the basics.

Quality set piece, clean outs, support play, forwards making short passes close to the gain line etc.

I don't think it's about trying to say that there is an overarching style but a focus on fundamentals at every age and level such that you can upskill players and coaches to do things the way they should be done.

I know we look at Ireland as a success story of a centralized model, but they have routinely fallen short at every world cup cycle. Maybe because of a lack of flexibility in thinking under the spotlight of a World Cup QF.

I don't think you can use this against them. It's only recently that the benefits of this project are coming to fruition. It's not like they have been doing the same thing for 20 years. Their rise is pretty well aligned to it.

 

[LeCheese]

The real question is "Whose playing style will be the one imposed on the others?". The only playing style with consistent success in this country has been the Brumbies' plan of play tight in the first half and open up in the second. But no fan of any of the other franchises seems to want to play that style. They mostly seem to want the "Australian Way" which nobody seems to be able to define of describe.

I'd suggest that imposing the Tahs game plan, for example, as a centralised style will see all franchises deteriorate. Honestly, who here would like to see all franchises playing the Brumbies' style outside of the two or three of us who have remained here despite the vitriol that often gets directed at our team?

I'm not sure that each Super team really does have a unique style of play, more that there are (naturally) variances in strengths, weaknesses, and exact execution. Overall, I think you could cluster all the Aus teams' play much more closely than comparing outwards to other nations.

The way I see it, if playing style was a type of meat, Aus teams would all be pork sausages with differences in the herbs and spices thrown in. And no, I haven't had lunch yet.

 

[HogansHeros]

If there's centralisation of ideas this is where it needs to start, the basics.

Quality set piece, clean outs, support play, forwards making short passes close to the gain line etc.

I don't think it's about trying to say that there is an overarching style

Didn't you just describe the Brumbies "style"

 

[Braveheart81]

Didn't you just describe the Brumbies "style"

Pretty much. Being well drilled and good at the core elements of rugby.

You then lean into what you're good at/is successful. It's all well and good to criticize the Brumbies for going to the rolling maul all the time in certain years but it's pretty hard to argue they should stop when they do it so well and it's really effective.

 

[noscrumnolife]

Winning rugby is good rugby. Crusaders are the only team in Super Rugby who rely on their maul as much as the Brumbies, doesn't seem to get many complaints either.

If there's centralisation of ideas this is where it needs to start, the basics.

Quality set piece, clean outs, support play, forwards making short passes close to the gain line etc.

Agreed fully. One thing I'd be running is national camps for the 40-50 best youngsters at U12s, U14s, u16s (and more if money allows). Don't teach them how to be professionals at these camps, but how good professionals are built on great core skills. Focus on set piece fundamentals at the higher age groups, tackle technique, catch-pass under pressure. Bring young talent into the national set-up earlier, make them feel valued in Rugby Union, get eyes on who the best upcoming players are. England Soccer team, routinely underperforming for many many years reformed their age-group set up over the 2010s to focus on technique and fundamentals. Paying off in spades now.

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

I think you’d place an emphasis on the core aspects of the game. The collision zone, set piece, catch + pass, kicking and S&C. The respective wallaby coaches would oversee these domains and make any tweaks they see necessary.
The specific attack and defence structures would be up to the Super Rugby teams.

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

it’d be interesting to see the limitations/restrictions that the IRFU placed on Friend at Connacht.

 

[HogansHeros]

Pretty much. Being well drilled and good at the core elements of rugby.

You then lean into what you're good at/is successful. It's all well and good to criticize the Brumbies for going to the rolling maul all the time in certain years but it's pretty hard to argue they should stop when they do it so well and it's really effective.

Yeah I enjoy watching them play, high percentage play rugby is what wins games.

 

[Alex Sharpe]

yes, we need to stop
Worrying about being flashy and impressing other codes with “running rugby” .. and just focus on winning .

I think that this 'running rugby' idea has actually contributed to the decline of the game in Australia.

I remember in the late 2000's, when rugby had a larger public footprint than it does now, there was consistent criticism of Australian teams winning ugly. I am talking 07-08 around the time of the ELV's. General play kicking becoming the thing that the sporting public identified as the 'KPI' for boring play.

Fast forward a few years we have Bill Pulver promising 'Australian running rugby' to entice the masses to watch the Wallabies. We then saw this turn into kick-phobic 'Cheika Ball' and a QF exit in 2019.

Rugby has so much to market itself on outside of quick hands and tries (which are great). If Rugby Australia can get the Australian Public to appreciate the physicality of forward play, the nuance of a territory battle and the science of scrummaging we will get a much larger foothold.

Rugby league has 'running rugby', Rugby Union has so much more

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

I think that this 'running rugby' idea has actually contributed to the decline of the game in Australia.

I remember in the late 2000's, when rugby had a larger public footprint than it does now, there was consistent criticism of Australian teams winning ugly. I am talking 07-08 around the time of the ELV's. General play kicking becoming the thing that the sporting public identified as the 'KPI' for boring play.

Fast forward a few years we have Bill Pulver promising 'Australian running rugby' to entice the masses to watch the Wallabies. We then saw this turn into kick-phobic 'Cheika Ball' and a QF exit in 2019.

Rugby has so much to market itself on outside of quick hands and tries (which are great). If Rugby Australia can get the Australian Public to appreciate the physicality of forward play, the nuance of a territory battle and the science of scrummaging we will get a much larger foothold.

Rugby league has 'running rugby', Rugby Union has so much more

Let also be known that running the footy and being clinical at the set piece/breakdown/kicking are not mutually exclusive things. Ireland, France and SA all play fairly attractive brands. Somewhere along the way we started to place more emphasis on throwing flick passes and less on the fundamentals.

 

[Goosestep]

I think that this 'running rugby' idea has actually contributed to the decline of the game in Australia.

I remember in the late 2000's, when rugby had a larger public footprint than it does now, there was consistent criticism of Australian teams winning ugly. I am talking 07-08 around the time of the ELV's. General play kicking becoming the thing that the sporting public identified as the 'KPI' for boring play.

Fast forward a few years we have Bill Pulver promising 'Australian running rugby' to entice the masses to watch the Wallabies. We then saw this turn into kick-phobic 'Cheika Ball' and a QF exit in 2019.

Rugby has so much to market itself on outside of quick hands and tries (which are great). If Rugby Australia can get the Australian Public to appreciate the physicality of forward play, the nuance of a territory battle and the science of scrummaging we will get a much larger foothold.

Rugby league has 'running rugby', Rugby Union has so much moore

yes it would be much better to educate the public on what makes the game different and skill specific.. scums, mauls, lineout & breakdowns …

We need to stop trying to appease league fans.

The NFL is an extremely complicated game technically, but it doesn’t stop it being the biggest game in America .

 

[noscrumnolife]

Rugby has so much to market itself on outside of quick hands and tries (which are great). If Rugby Australia can get the Australian Public to appreciate the physicality of forward play, the nuance of a territory battle and the science of scrummaging we will get a much larger foothold.

100% agree with all you've said. Although I think these are challenges facing the sport outside of just Australia. For example, the Poms, have always relied on territory, forward power and set piece to get results. But everytime Farrell or Ford put the boot to ball the old farts at Twickenham shit their pants because they saw Marcus Smith run a few times for Harlequins. As you identify, the game has a marketing issue which it needs to resolve if it is going to unlock its true global potential.

 

[Goosestep]

100% agree with all you've said. Although I think these are challenges facing the sport outside of just Australia. For example, the Poms, have always relied on territory, forward power and set piece to get results. But everytime Farrell or Ford put the boot to ball the old farts at Twickenham shit their pants because they saw Marcus Smith run a few times for Harlequins. As you identify, the game has a marketing issue which it needs to resolve if it is going to unlock its true global potential.

Yep make Props great again