Wallabies 2023

[Linerunner2023]

It's complete nonsense to be dropping a player from the RWC based on one knock-on. That can't possibly be the actual rationale. I'm guessing EJ (Eddie Jones) (Eddie Jones) was leaning in this direction all along: drop as many existing players as humanly possible. Replace them with new players that don't have caps. Nothing else makes sense for some of these decisions except for that. The same goes for Holloway. He had one bad decision, in his first couple games with a new coaching staff. Meanwhile Richie Arnold has looked bad in virtually every minute of every game and he's still there.

Why else would you bring no capable backup #10 and keep Vunivalu? When you have Quade, Foley, JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor), Hodge sitting around? Are any of them world-beaters at this stage? No. But they are far more useful to this team than a backup Super Rugby winger. On a team with 5-6 guys that can play winger without issue.

In case we forget Carter Gordon had a terrible display of kicking in one game. Didn't seem to hurt his stock whatsoever.

Maybe this approach by EJ (Eddie Jones) (Eddie Jones) is the right one in terms of shifting the culture or something, I don't know. But clearly some of these decisions have more to do a philosophical shift rather than an evaluation of on field performance. Out with the old, in with the new.

We'll see how that goes.

Exactly Eddie is a narcissist
Dropping Quade for 1 dropped ball? But gorden made several errors? Suli survives despite looking completely out of depth in test rugby! And even super rugby
If gorden and mcreight are no better then hooper or Quade why wouldn’t you keep experience. Fair enough if they are better players

also I’m Eddie comment above not taking hooper and ikatau because of injuries - yet why are tupou and Kerevi still going?
we want a winning culture - our new guys are not used to winning cultures anyway - and we are taking 6 brumbies who are used to a winning culture

eddie is fighting with himself, give players time to gel and come back from injuries, not make several changes after every loss and virtually start again

 

[Linerunner2023]

You’re allowed to feel however you want

And I don’t agree with every selection Eddie has made, like all coaches he has his blind spots and bias in regards to certain players

but I really like the backing of the young guys in this instance. We have watched the experienced guys for years play and win NOTHING. Logic and common sense say we aren’t winning this World Cup without a miracle, so why not see what the young guys can do?

And I feel this issue isn’t on Eddie. It’s on Rennie and his complete lack of direction at every key position for the last 3 years. His short term, panic thinking has forced this squad

They have won at times, the new guys have not won much either, many not winning a test match so what’s changed?
Atm jones in making Rennie look like a master coach
Yes Rennie wasn’t amazing.- couldn’t fix issues week after week but we competed and should have beaten France and Ireland with nearly a 2md
String team
Jones has lost to Argentina at home, and got belted v ABs and SA
Garland said it well - saying jones said we would win bledislode and rugby champs, and we have not won a game

 

[PhilClinton]

Whilst the Vunivalu selection is one I really disagree with, as someone who watched him play a lot of NRL I know how good he COULD be.

At the absolute peak of his powers, on a day when he’s eaten just the right amount of weetbix, and had the perfect amount of sleep, he’s got the talent to be a dominant winger with an aerial attacking skill set that we are probably lacking at the moment.

Eddie’s stubbornness obviously believes he can align all those factors and still make him a proper test match winger. Wait and see, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him given another chance against France.

 

[KOB1987]

I was talking to a fairly knowledgeable group last night and it came up that the deeper you go into the tournament the less reliant you are on the back up players, but they are important in the pool stages and having some options and these so called utility players is also important. As you head into the knockout stages there is a need to refine depth in certain positions, depending on who is carrying injuries. Kemeny for example was described to me as a ‘placeholder’ for Ikitau. That’s not necessarily saying they manufacture an injury for Kemeny if/when Len is fit, but any injury to a player outside Gordon or the front row they can bring him in and still not have to risk first graders v Portugal. It probably explains IFL to an extent as well. It was also the intent with Donaldson, but with the omission of Quade his role has prematurely stepped up a notch.

Re Quade, I was also told he was asked to go to the NT as one of the ‘extras’ but either declined, or hadn’t decided if he would. Hence JOC (James O'Connor). I agree that neither he or Hooper would agree to play in the Australia A game, however the game v France could be a different story, Eddie even said that Hooper might be ready for that, that’s a pretty strong hint about his intentions.

Those first 4 losses count against Eddie’s record this time in, and so they should, but I think his tenure starts now, up until now he has being trying to figure out the best squad to play to his plan. I’m moving on from the selection chatter, keeping an open mind on the selections and getting behind the team now.

Go Wallabies!

 

[emuarse]

After consideration, I have come to the conclusion that Wil Skelton should not be the Wallaby captain - why not?
Nothing against the individual, or even his past experience (or lack of) to captain the Wallabies.
It is for rewarding a player who has opted to play overseas.
His address is now somewhere in France.
Surely the Wallabies captain has commitments that go way beyond the RWC tournament, which Skelton will not be able to fill adequately after October.
Is his appointment a message to our young players that to totally succeed, then join an overseas team because you could be rewarded with the Wallabies captaincy?
I welcome opinion from others regarding this as an issue, and appreciate it could be contraversial. But it needs to be discussed.

 

[Drew]

As a lazy, handsome winger I always wondered how hard it was to learn to jump in a lineout. Do you even do anything? Don't you just get launched by your props into the sky?

Anyway my point is, why can't Valetini be more of a lineout option? would be pretty useful.

Good question, why doesn’t Valetini jump too?
Or we could go the junior rugby route, the biggest forwards toss up the smallest forward (McReight)? There’s probably a million reasons why these options aren’t done, but Skelton won’t be used much and we need a convincing third option if McReight starts.

 

[KOB1987]

You would think that at the very least Valetini and Skelton could give McReight some pretty good air.

 

[wamberal]

After consideration, I have come to the conclusion that Wil Skelton should not be the Wallaby captain - why not?

I welcome opinion from others regarding this as an issue, and appreciate it could be contraversial. But it needs to be discussed.

Look, I think you made some good points. But on the other side of the coin, Skelton went to a state school, comes from a pretty humble background, and needed to make the biggest monetary return from his (shortish) professional career that he could. No reasonable rugby supporter could deny him that, and we do not even know the full extent of his filial responsibilities. The best contribution that any Wallaby captain could make for our game at the moment is to get the team performing well, and (gasp) winning.

If he can do that he will get a lot of publicity for our sport. Personal appearances are great. Winning is better.

 

[qwerty51]

The reason you don't throw up short people even though they're light is because of arm length.

 

[qwerty51]

After consideration, I have come to the conclusion that Wil Skelton should not be the Wallaby captain - why not?
Nothing against the individual, or even his past experience (or lack of) to captain the Wallabies.
It is for rewarding a player who has opted to play overseas.
His address is now somewhere in France.
Surely the Wallabies captain has commitments that go way beyond the RWC tournament, which Skelton will not be able to fill adequately after October.
Is his appointment a message to our young players that to totally succeed, then join an overseas team because you could be rewarded with the Wallabies captaincy?
I welcome opinion from others regarding this as an issue, and appreciate it could be contraversial. But it needs to be discussed.

It's fair point about commitments outside rugby but are there really that many?

He has the most French experience out of the whole squad, it'll come useful in terms of the touring. Now his ability to speak French could also work wonders forming a rapport with any French referees thrown our way.

 

[PhilClinton]

The reason you don't throw up short people even though they're light is because of arm length.

This is getting technical now but wouldn’t two second rowers at full stretch throwing up say McReight equal a very close to if not better height than a second rower going up?

 

[qwerty51]

This is getting technical now but wouldn’t two second rowers at full stretch throwing up say McReight equal a very close to if not better height than a second rower going up?

I don't think so because of overall longer limbs and the lift only starts above the knee. I'm sure it's been optimised and tried.

 

[HogansHeros]

This is getting technical now but wouldn’t two second rowers at full stretch throwing up say McReight equal a very close to if not better height than a second rower going up?

This is getting very caught up in detail, but its also not all about height. Longer arms gives you a chance to reach for a ball infront or sideways, to compete with the opposition jumper.

 

[KOB1987]

The reason you don't throw up short people even though they're light is because of arm length.

Well you wouldn’t use it as the primary line out option but it’s certainly viable as a variation. Much like throwing it to the fat bloke at the front, which still happens in every line out from 6th grade to test matches

This is getting technical now but wouldn’t two second rowers at full stretch throwing up say McReight equal a very close to if not better height than a second rower going up?

In the case of the 3 subjects we are discussing, for sure. Not necessarily against Lurch though.

Anyways, Skelton has been used as a jumper in Europe, I’m sure they would be working on it.

 

[dru]

Exactly Eddie is a narcissist
Dropping Quade for 1 dropped ball? But gorden made several errors? Suli survives despite looking completely out of depth in test rugby! And even super rugby
If gorden and mcreight are no better then hooper or Quade why wouldn’t you keep experience. Fair enough if they are better players

also I’m Eddie comment above not taking hooper and ikatau because of injuries - yet why are tupou and Kerevi still going?
we want a winning culture - our new guys are not used to winning cultures anyway - and we are taking 6 brumbies who are used to a winning culture

eddie is fighting with himself, give players time to gel and come back from injuries, not make several changes after every loss and virtually start again

Rule 6.

 

[dru]

Good question, why doesn’t Valetini jump too?
Or we could go the junior rugby route, the biggest forwards toss up the smallest forward (McReight)? There’s probably a million reasons why these options aren’t done, but Skelton won’t be used much and we need a convincing third option if McReight starts.

If you watch volleyballers train for jumping it's pretty impressive. Built up with weights over long time periods. Emphasis in on explosive power and dynamics. You can't simply drop in for a day and compete.

This is getting very caught up in detail, but its also not all about height. Longer arms gives you a chance to reach for a ball infront or sideways, to compete with the opposition jumper.

The way I see it: Skelton was lifting in some of the French club jumping options. And occasionally jumping from rumour. The advantage of a lighter frame is dynamism and not giving the game away. With big Skel think of a heavy lift airplane taking off. Everyone defending the line knows where he is going. But key issue if you are only 6' is the length of arms, the distance lifting, and flexibility when the lift isn't perfect and the catch is starting lower.

I'd also think that you want the big guy at the point of attack when landed and in the maul push. A lighter lifter is possibly wanting to pass at the peak more than not. it all requires better precision. A tall lighter 6 (or 7,8) can make a great lineout option, noting they will be slow in getting into position for a phase or two.

But it can be added to Skellton's repertoire, and you could use the Skelton bomber runway thing tactically to confuse the defence after putting him up once or twice.

We usually want two solid options front and rear, and then alternates starting with long and short throw followed by the back three. With Skelton in the line, one of the back three just became a primary jumper, not just a tactical option.

 

[Sam Old]

Whilst the Vunivalu selection is one I really disagree with, as someone who watched him play a lot of NRL I know how good he COULD be.

At the absolute peak of his powers, on a day when he’s eaten just the right amount of weetbix, and had the perfect amount of sleep, he’s got the talent to be a dominant winger with an aerial attacking skill set that we are probably lacking at the moment.

Eddie’s stubbornness obviously believes he can align all those factors and still make him a proper test match winger. Wait and see, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him given another chance against France.

Haven’t seen that ever since he switched to rugby. Not even in Hospital Cup. But if EJ (Eddie Jones) can find it after three years of below average, that’ll be awesome.

 

[Drew]

From what I’ve seen (not much) Skelton is usually jumping in attacking lineouts 5-10 metres out, where the defending teams usually don’t compete so they can defend the rolling maul. To me it seemed a surprise tactic. It’s not like if our primary jumpers are getting picked off in other parts of the field he’s a reliable option to take heat off the primary jumpers.

 

[Tomthumb]

If Hooper and Cooper have indeed refused to play for Australia A as they think they are too good for it, that may just point to why their “leadership” wasn’t wanted in the squad

 

[KOB1987]

If Hooper and Cooper have indeed refused to play for Australia A as they think they are too good for it, that may just point to why their “leadership” wasn’t wanted in the squad

I don’t think they have refused to, everyone is just suggesting they probably won’t. It sounds as though Cooper may have thrown the baby out about being one of the ‘extras’ though. Hooper is still injured but if fit will more likely be tested in the warm up v France.