Wallabies 2023

[qwerty51]

Just over 2 weeks until the next match against France, there's going to be a lot of off-topic discussions or we can keep discussing Donaldson.

 

[cyclopath]

At least Donaldson is on topic. And era.

 

[TSR]

He did indeed create this by developing a grand total of zero halfbacks, zero first fives and zero fullbacks

He had 3/4 of a World Cup cycle, and instead of developing younger players, he was scouting Japanese rugby for the next mid 30’s guy he could beg to come back

Which 5/8 should he have developed? It’s worth noting that he got more out of Cooper at 10 than anyone at test level. The rest of them were kids in nappies - only one of whom had any level of super rugby experience to support him being up to test footy. But, ultimately, he wasn’t. And who was the fullback he let down. He gave guys opportunities and they didn’t take it. Why is that all his fault. Who is the person he missed. Koroibete and Kellaway came along leaps and bounds with Rennie.

With regards to half backs 12 months ago people were saying Nic White was world class.

Coaches live and die by their record so Rennie will be remembered as an unsuccessful coach but blaming him for the wilderness of player development that has existed for a decade - something most rugby followers openly acknowledge is crazy.

Edit: sorry Cyclo - just read your post. Will leave it from here. Delete if you wish.

 

[rugbyAU]

Kemeny should've been named in the backrow not as a utility, sure he can play 6 & 7 but going by that logic there would be around half the squad that would qualify as a utility and can play at least two positions (Hooper, Valetini, Gleeson, Leota, Schoupp, Kellaway, Petaia, Perese etc.), same goes for Donaldson

 

[Viking]

Don't know what we gain from having Bobby at 6 when he's been our anchor at the back of the Wallabies scrum for the past few years. Have Gleeson at 6, technically less for him to do.

But yes I'm so ready for Gleeson. The people on here upset at his inclusion over Samu are nuts. Do we watch the same player? Gleeson is a freak and is sitting down so many players at the age of 22. Genuinely a player with a point of difference that Australia has been dying for. Get him, Skelton, Bell, Tupou and Bobby V on at the same time, Australia actually has some potential.

I’m a huge Samu fan but I agree with you. I’m all for Gleeson getting a shot. His velocity into contact is up there with the best

 

[qwerty51]

It's remarkable to me that Gleeson was named in every single squad since day 1 but is yet to play under Eddie (in a positional spot that he's tinkered with a lot) that no journo stopped to think and ask Eddie why. Is he injured? Fit to play? Just not selecting him? What's doing Eddie?

Not picking Faessler or Lonergan or Schoupp sort of made sense at least, those were his clear 3rd options and he wanted the best 23 out there each time but he's picked Samu, Leota, Holloway, T & M Hooper, McReight, Valetini but didn't give Gleeson a go.

 

[Namerican]

Personally, I think Quade is very hard done by. The first game he had only recently come back from injury, he was playing behind a beaten pack, the game plan was new and territory focused, and frankly, Nic White was playing more out of 9.

Second game he had a hand in nearly ALL the points in that game. He was a link player in almost all the tries and kicked 5/5.

Last game he kicks a long range kick under pressure BUT drops a critical ball. If they had scored off that play, they would have won and he’s a hero. But his career is over because he drops one poor pass?

It's complete nonsense to be dropping a player from the RWC based on one knock-on. That can't possibly be the actual rationale. I'm guessing EJ (Eddie Jones) was leaning in this direction all along: drop as many existing players as humanly possible. Replace them with new players that don't have caps. Nothing else makes sense for some of these decisions except for that. The same goes for Holloway. He had one bad decision, in his first couple games with a new coaching staff. Meanwhile Richie Arnold has looked bad in virtually every minute of every game and he's still there.

Why else would you bring no capable backup #10 and keep Vunivalu? When you have Quade, Foley, JOC (James O'Connor), Hodge sitting around? Are any of them world-beaters at this stage? No. But they are far more useful to this team than a backup Super Rugby winger. On a team with 5-6 guys that can play winger without issue.

In case we forget Carter Gordon had a terrible display of kicking in one game. Didn't seem to hurt his stock whatsoever.

Maybe this approach by EJ (Eddie Jones) is the right one in terms of shifting the culture or something, I don't know. But clearly some of these decisions have more to do a philosophical shift rather than an evaluation of on field performance. Out with the old, in with the new.

We'll see how that goes.

 

[Viking]

I honestly cannot accept the notion that Eddie is not picking the best possible squad now for this World Cup.

To do otherwise goes against everything that I have ever believed about professional sport.

He picked the best XV. Not much argument about that.

Everyone is literally arguing about injury cover selections.

Accept Eddie is risking injury cover selections for impact players or youth. It’s really not that bad.

Plus given our lack of depth we probably needs to take some big risks to win.

 

[Namerican]

He picked the best XV. Not much argument about that.

Everyone is literally arguing about injury cover selections.

Accept Eddie is risking injury cover selections for impact players or youth. It’s really not that bad.

Plus given our lack of depth we probably needs to take some big risks to win.

It's fairly high-risk given how common injuries are in rugby, especially with the Wallabies. I also don't think they can afford to take Georgia lightly and field a team of backups. The Georgian pack is legit.

Hopefully this debate is about contingencies that never happen. But I think it is 100% fair to take issue with a contingency plan for the most important player on the pitch, in a (hopefully) 7 game tournament, being Donaldson. Or putting out Vunivalu in a semi-final due to some injuries.

The other approach seems to be: fuck it, they are probably going to lose anyways so who cares. I don't that's an acceptable approach for a RWC. You should be giving yourself every opportunity to do well.

 

[Viking]

I think Robbie Deans was consistent, things were much rosier when he was coach tbh. Constantly beat SA, the occasional once a year win v NZ (even if it was 1 from 3 or 4). Never lost to Wales - Ireland and Scotland only once. Destroyed France. Beat Eng a few times, record was 4-2 against Eng I think?

A Beale slip from winning the Lions series. Won in SA, won at Twickers twice.

We were #2 and IMO, the 2nd best side in the 2011 RWC.

edit: Scotland twice

Ireland, France are now genuine contenders for the worlds best.
Argentina on there day can beat anyone.
SA, England still can too.
Even Japan and Fiji, can cause an upset on there day and aren’t easy beats.
Wales, Scotland aren’t easy beats.

The world stage is so much more competitive since the Deans era.

 

[Viking]

So it’s safe to say Skelton is starting. Unless THooper starts at 7 again, our line out options are pretty low.

I’d much prefer McReight to start, and he should have been Captain.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

After letting it sink in for the last 24 hours, I have to admire EJ (Eddie Jones) for his daring. There are a few head scratchers but seen in the context of having a crack this year, but more to the point building for the future, this squad starts to make a lot of sense. I'm stoked for the young guys and hope they tear it up.

Going into the RWC my expectations are pretty low but on the other hand I'm also excited about what this group could achieve if they click. They're only going to get better from here too, especially with the talent pool trailing them from the U20's.

So damn the torpedoes Eddie and let the boys off the leash. It could all crash and burn, but it'll be far from boring. I'm strapping in for the bonkers ride it's going to be.

 

[Viking]

It's fairly high-risk given how common injuries are in rugby, especially with the Wallabies. I also don't think they can afford to take Georgia lightly and field a team of backups. The Georgian pack is legit.

The other approach seems to be: fuck it, they are probably going to lose anyways so who cares. I don't that's an acceptable approach for a RWC. You should be giving yourself every opportunity to do well.

Depends how you look at it, since injuries are common so you say, and I bet more common in the forwards, then there will be plenty of opportunity to bring in more options later. (Unless that one injury is Gordon of coarse - but any other player will be okay) So your odds are 33-1 the injury is not Gordon.

And If we can’t win with Donaldson at 10 in the pool stages we really don’t deserve to win the RWC. By then we could have JOC (James O'Connor) or Cooper back if Gordon went down.

 

[qwerty51]

Ireland, France are now genuine contenders for the worlds best.
Argentina on there day can beat anyone.
SA, England still can too.
Even Japan and Fiji, can cause an upset on there day and aren’t easy beats.
Wales, Scotland aren’t easy beats.

The world stage is so much more competitive since the Deans era.

You're 100% spot on,

back then it was so Tri-Nations dominated. France were a joke, so were Ireland & England at times. Italy were knocking off Scotland and Ireland occasionally. Wales were the NH kings.

Still, he had success against a pretty good SA side which was loaded with Bulls & 2007 champions, some of their greatest ever. The current day Wallabies probably loses often against that 2009-2012 Welsh side as well

 

[eastman]

From the outside it seems like Eddie has got shot of more senior players - and whatever off-field "baggage" or agendas they may have - and picked the younger more malleable players who he hopes to convince to run through walls for him. He is quite good at that come RWC time. Did it for Aus before, then Japan, then even England..

It is like he jettisoned all the players who would have stood up to him and call him a fuckwit.

 

[eastman]

With the 48hr rule it will be cutting it very close for replacements at the pointy end of the tournament. Maybe that is EJs plan and we will see Cooper, Hooper and Ikitau in the knockout stages? This assuming we lose a backrower and two inside backs at some point.

I think it’s pretty unlikely that Cooper and Hooper agree to tour with the Australian A squad, and I don’t blame them..

They‘d probably prefer a holiday.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

So it’s safe to say Skelton is starting. Unless THooper starts at 7 again, our line out options are pretty low.

I’d much prefer McReight to start, and he should have been Captain.

Yeah this is still a concern, will be only 2 recognized lineout jumpers in the starting 8. However I did notice Skelton and Valetini both won lineouts during the bledisloe though so it is not like they are completely written off as options. Should have enough to get by

 

[Derpus]

As a lazy, handsome winger I always wondered how hard it was to learn to jump in a lineout. Do you even do anything? Don't you just get launched by your props into the sky?

Anyway my point is, why can't Valetini be more of a lineout option? would be pretty useful.

 

[Namerican]

As a lazy, handsome winger I always wondered how hard it was to learn to jump in a lineout. Do you even do anything? Don't you just get launched by your props into the sky?

Anyway my point is, why can't Valetini be more of a lineout option? would be pretty useful.

As a fellow lazy handsome winger I was thrust into chief lineout jumper on an ill-fated and undermanned tour. It took a bit of time to jump straight up, but got that figured out after a practice session. What I didn't anticipate was being dropped from 5 feet in the air. That sucked.

 

[qwerty51]

If you don't jump straight up and rigid you'll fall over and onto your lifters, you need to be explosive from the bottom. Staying up for a decent length requires a bit of core work. Seems easy but it does take a while to master