Wallabies 2023

[Braveheart81]

But I still have more confidence in him in a tournament setting that I would have had Rennie

My whole point is that the cost of this is substantial in terms of money and the potential damage it does to Jones' tenure post RWC and the potential upside is low and looking unlikely to come to fruition.

Now I also believed that somehow Jones could do something miraculous this year so am also guilty of drinking the Kool-Aid but it's becoming more and more clear that this was hope more than anything concrete. The combination of relying on a bunch of key players returning from serious injuries as well as inexperienced guys being critical to our success is not a great position to be in.

 

[Dan54]

Tom Lambert brought into the squad.

Hasn’t he had a rapid rise. Showed some good moments early in Super Rugby when Bell got hurt. Slowed towards the back end of the year but it’s next man up now.

Sorry if I stuff up between the 1,3 but Eddie mustn’t care about Pone too much? Haven’t heard anything about him for a while.

As an AB supporter, I kind of hope Pone does come into team. I find him somewhat limited as a prop.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Me too. Rodzilla all over again.

Eating with our eyes.

 

[KOB1987]

I think he made a mistake not keeping on Fisher, and was hurt bad by McKellar leaving. But his what we got, and his been entertaining, and I can say for 30 mins we were playing a game where we were smashing at the All Blacks.

No one really thought we would beat them. I even said fuck me when I saw their team sheet.

We roll on, we don't have to play that well to get to the semi's and from there its anyone game

This right here is the big hope I think i.e. that what we saw in that 30 minutes is what they are aspiring to do for 80 minutes. It went pear shaped when we lost Alan and then Tupou and then fatigue set in and we lost a lot of our structure and intent. Which, for mine, is why Eddie saw it more important to smash them with a fitness schedule rather than taper leading into a home Bledisloe. They aren't fit enough to compete with the big boys at the pointy end of a tournament, and if they can't do that there's no point in even making it to the quarters.

 

[KOB1987]

As an AB supporter, I kind of hope Pone does come into team. I find him somewhat limited as a prop.

I think you are going to encounter that dynamic regardless of who comes in.

 

[Tomthumb]

This right here is the big hope I think i.e. that what we saw in that 30 minutes is what they are aspiring to do for 80 minutes. It went pear shaped when we lost Alan and then Tupou and then fatigue set in and we lost a lot of our structure and intent. Which, for mine, is why Eddie saw it more important to smash them with a fitness schedule rather than taper leading into a home Bledisloe. They aren't fit enough to compete with the big boys at the pointy end of a tournament, and if they can't do that there's no point in even making it to the quarters.

Eddie is now the 2nd straight Wallabies coach that has found it necessary to attempt to boost the fitness levels of the players coming from Super Rugby

Some serious questions need to be asked about the work (or lack thereof) being done by the Super teams when it comes to getting players up to speed

 

[qwerty51]

My issue with appointing Eddie Jones this year is that he was largely on a hiding to nothing for the RWC and we're seeing that play out now. We paid a lot of money to get rid of Rennie with a year to go in his contract and we've surely made Eddie Jones' job more difficult over the next cycle heading towards the Lions series and 2027 RWC.

Now maybe something miraculous happens and we string together a few good performances and make the semi-finals but that doesn't seem overly likely at this stage. Does limping to a quarter final appearance do enough to make the landscape for 2024 stable enough that the pressure isn't on Jones immediately? In my view we've burned all the goodwill that Eddie Jones would have had coming in for no gain.

Yeah I would've stuck with Rennie for the RWC at least but the problem is, as RA have said they needed to pounce on Eddie if they wanted him for 2024 and beyond because if they stuck with Rennie, Eddie would've had another job. It's always about timing. Personally, I would've stuck with Rennie and gone for O'Gara.

 

[KevinO]

I think the critics of Jones is harsh, I know most posters on here are bleeding gold. But they are all forgetting the fact since post 2015RWC the Wallabies have a winning percentage of less then 40%, yes it's hard when you face the All Blacks 3 times a year and the Boks twice. It doesn't change the fact you have dropped games against everyone and lost 2 series to England and 1 to Ireland at home in that time as well.

I'd love for Jones to come out and say I don't expect to be competitive at this world cup, there isn't enough time to turn the squad around since I took over so I am going to develop for the Lions and RWC27. But let's face it, the fans expect to win no matter how bad the situation really is.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah I would've stuck with Rennie for the RWC at least but the problem is, as Rugby Australia have said they needed to pounce on Eddie if they wanted him for 2024 and beyond because if they stuck with Rennie, Eddie would've had another job. It's always about timing. Personally, I would've stuck with Rennie and gone for O'Gara.

I disagree with this. It seems pretty clear that Eddie Jones wanted to return to Australia and I can't see him turning down a 2024-2027 contract if they'd offered it to him at the same time.

It was pretty clear that Rennie was not getting renewed so I don't think there was any issue making the appointment early.

 

[KOB1987]

Eddie is now the 2nd straight Wallabies coach that has found it necessary to attempt to boost the fitness levels of the players coming from Super Rugby

Some serious questions need to be asked about the work (or lack thereof) being done by the Super teams when it comes to getting players up to speed

Absolutely, and you need to wonder how much of a contributing factor it is in our poor performances against the Kiwi teams, particularly as we are often within reach at half time and then get run over in the second half. From memory in Cheika's case in 2019 he had stipulated to the Super coaches he wanted them to up their fitness regimes, and when they came into camp it was apparent that no one had taken any notice of him.

 

[Slim 293]

I can tell you he was well liked by the playing group- take that as you want.

Did you take a survey of all 70 or so Wallabies players from last year?

 

[Braveheart81]

Are we substantially less fit than our opposition or are we needing to exert more effort to stay competitive against good teams such that we run out of steam badly in the back end of games?

Was there the same feeling against Argentina?

 

[qwerty51]

I disagree with this. It seems pretty clear that Eddie Jones wanted to return to Australia and I can't see him turning down a 2024-2027 contract if they'd offered it to him at the same time.

It was pretty clear that Rennie was not getting renewed so I don't think there was any issue making the appointment early.

He said that after he signed, it's worthless. Hardly going to admit anything else.

 

[qwerty51]

Also this 100% his fault but we said at the time his assistants are pretty much nobodies. They should also be copping it. That's probably the biggest issue for me.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Are we substantially less fit than our opposition or are we needing to exert more effort to stay competitive against good teams such that we run out of steam badly in the back end of games?

Was there the same feeling against Argentina?

The latter I think.

We have players that aren't at the same level across the park as their opposition. The work they put in to keep up eventually breaks. As solid as Porecki is and he's probably our no.1 Hooker he can't keep up with Cody Taylor over the entire thing. Other teams will know this as well. Grind with the Wallabies and eventually you will pull away from them.

Super Rugby is the same. It might be close for a half with Starters but then we bring on a guy who is a good Club Rugby player and they can't match it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Also this 100% his fault but we said at the time his assistants are pretty much nobodies. They should also be copping it. That's probably the biggest issue for me.

This is part of the problem with out of cycle hires. You can't really blame the assistants for being the only guys available at the time.

Somewhat uniquely we were going to have this problem this year regardless because for some reason (almost) everyone jumped ship on Rennie.

 

[Alex Sharpe]

I really question the merit of having a Rennie v Jones discussion. Rennie is gone and we have picked our coach. Looking backwards is not a winning mentality.

I also can't see Eddie being the problem. He has a proven record over more than two decades with Brumby, Wallaby, Japanese and English teams amongst others. The man can clearly coach. I don't think any coach would have done much better over the last three games. Having the first test in Pretoria was always a tough ask and I think the result of that game has probably knocked off a bit of confidence for the next two games.

Australian rugby has obviously got some core problems at the moment but I am inclined to point the finger at the high performance management and S&C training being delivered at our super rugby and national teams. four achillies ruptures in a 12 month period (Leota, Topou, AAA, Quade) is not bad luck, its indicative of something wrong. What other test team is loosing that quantity of players to achillies injuries? It also appears that the average Australian player simply doesn't have the motor of their kiwi counterparts. the second half blowout on Saturday night is one of plenty of examples. The physical capacity of the wallaby team is a variable that Eddie Jones can't impact. It is an attribute that he inherits from Super Rugby preseasons

I think blaming Eddie Jones for three losses on the hop really neglects to acknowledge the deeper problems in the Australian professional game.

 

[KOB1987]

Also this 100% his fault but we said at the time his assistants are pretty much nobodies. They should also be copping it. That's probably the biggest issue for me.

This is part of the problem with out of cycle hires. You can't really blame the assistants for being the only guys available at the time.

Somewhat uniquely we were going to have this problem this year regardless because for some reason (almost) everyone jumped ship on Rennie.

Agree, and I said somewhere above that rather than throw said nobodies into the melting pot, a better long term solution for this year may have just been to get all the super head coaches + Grey + Gilmore + the Lord, construct a coaching team out of that and use it as a building exercise for our domestic based coaches. It's not like any of them are complete flops, and they are already on the payroll, they would all have something to offer.

 

[PhilClinton]

Eddie is now the 2nd straight Wallabies coach that has found it necessary to attempt to boost the fitness levels of the players coming from Super Rugby

Some serious questions need to be asked about the work (or lack thereof) being done by the Super teams when it comes to getting players up to speed

There needs to be a top-down approach from RA in terms of S&C and skills at Super Rugby level.

I firmly believe RA should be sourcing the best assistants and fitness coaches and delegating them across Australian Super Rugby teams.

General Australian rugby 'ethos', fitness goals and strategy is set with the Wallabies HC and all the coaches at the start of the Super Rugby season and then off they go.

 

[Tomthumb]

There needs to be a top-down approach from Rugby Australia in terms of S&C and skills at Super Rugby level.

I firmly believe Rugby Australia should be sourcing the best assistants and fitness coaches and delegating them across Australian Super Rugby teams.

General Australian rugby 'ethos', fitness goals and strategy is set with the Wallabies HC and all the coaches at the start of the Super Rugby season and then off they go.

Totally agree, but Rugby Australia seems to have no control over the Super teams