Wallabies 2023

[upthereds#!]

I don't think anyone doubted he's the best 10 in Australia atm. Whether it's enough to get him a place in the RWC squad with likely only 2 specialists 10s picked, not sure.

Eddie said he was taking 3 10s. But I think the 3rd has to be able to play somewhere else. Like a To'omua or JOC (James O'Connor). I'm sure he would have liked Donaldson to do better and be able to cover 15. Most likely in this squad, Hodge.

However could still be Quade, Foley and Gordon - but seems like a wasted spot. But who do you back in vital international games as the 2nd string - the proven performer who you know can deliver, or the young gun. Is the WC the place to 'blood' someone? He would have to start 2 of the 3 RC games IMO to know.

 

[stillmissit]

So off this logic Ardie Savea I rate as the best forward in the game is too light weight to play for the all blacks and can’t dominate collisions? He is only a kg or 2 more than hooper! And dominates everyone! Josh van der flier is 2kg heavier and got player of the world but is not big enough?
porecki is not big and does get dominated in collisions so you have picked the wrong person there
And just because someone is big this does not mean they do dominate collisions!
It’s about rounding a pack out, if you have 7 large forwards you can get away with a smaller forward that does a huge amount of work off the ball! You have no one with work rate. If you watched a game and how much a good 7 does they act as two players, and up to the other 7 to get over the gain line!
Gleeson at 7? The bloke can barely get through 60 min at 8!

RM23: some interesting comments in there. Impact is either weight or speed at contact. Getting hit by a train doing 10km it's all over, being hit by a cricket ball at 10km may sting but that's it. Ardie makes a strong impact because he hits at speed and drives through the contact with almost manic energy. The questions arise are we too prepared to take the tackle and not working to be beyond the tackle zone ie league style approach?
I think a huge pack with no speed won't win you games it is about balance but there is an interesting article by Wayne Smith on the new rules bringing bigger players into the game. https://www.rugbypass.com/news/i-wa...o-turn-off-super-rugby-match-for-animal-doco/

 

[Members Section]

I don't think Samu is a lock for the squad at all. I think Gleeson has jumped ahead of him and is outplaying him on both sides of the ball. Playing 60 mins doesn't concern me right now because the week before he got through 40 now 60 and I hope it ramps up to 70. (finally we are bringing players back effectively) Gleeson off a bench with 30 mins left could be very effective.

Holloway will be in the squad the way he's playing. Gives you a lot of flexibility in the 23

Bobby is going to play 8 ahead of Gleeson, if pete makes the squad it will be as a 20/utility back. I agree if you were just picking an 8 out of Gleenson & Samu Gleeson is the choice.

 

[Braveheart81]

Samu needs to be the first choice 20 to make the squad in my view. If he isn't in that best 23 he doesn't make it at all.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Bobby is going to play 8 ahead of Gleeson, if pete makes the squad it will be as a 20/utility back. I agree if you were just picking an 8 out of Gleenson & Samu Gleeson is the choice.

Yep. Bobby V is the 8. I just think Samu and Gleeson offer the same thing and might be playing for the same spot. Gleeson is performing higher currently.

 

[stillmissit]

Eddie said he was taking 3 10s. But I think the 3rd has to be able to play somewhere else. Like a To'omua or JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor). I'm sure he would have liked Donaldson to do better and be able to cover 15. Most likely in this squad, Hodge.

However could still be Quade, Foley and Gordon - but seems like a wasted spot. But who do you back in vital international games as the 2nd string - the proven performer who you know can deliver, or the young gun. Is the WC the place to 'blood' someone? He would have to start 2 of the 3 RC games IMO to know.

Didn't know that Jones said that. I it may well be Quade, Gordon and Hodge (backup) as I think the Super Rugby potentials are out of time to prove their worth, but a wasted opportunity by Donaldson. Noah should have stamped his authority earlier, one good game won't be enough to convince Jones and it's unlikely he will take 2 youngsters.
JOC (James O'Connor) hasn't been playing 10 so that rules him out.

 

[stillmissit]

Yep. Bobby V is the 8. I just think Samu and Gleeson offer the same thing and might be playing for the same spot. Gleeson is performing higher currently.

Ghost, don't think Jones will play Gleeeson in the main games (if he picks him). He is not an international 8 as he will never be big enough and not sure he reads a game as well as a good 8 does. His best chance is at 7 but not this year. Would love to see him playing 7 but to do it well he needs time in the position as it is more than hard hits and busting runs.

 

[qwerty51]

So off this logic Ardie Savea I rate as the best forward in the game is too light weight to play for the all blacks and can’t dominate collisions? He is only a kg or 2 more than hooper! And dominates everyone! Josh van der flier is 2kg heavier and got player of the world but is not big enough?

Why do you trust internet stats over the eye test

 

[fatprop]

a few good wallabies battles over the weekend
Mcreight just got the chocolates over hooper, I think both these guys need to go as specialist 7s

also rebels scrum for brumbies a coupe of times, but talakai and gibbon did not originally get selected
Kellaway and Wright were close
Also why did it take a match against Gorden for noah to finally do something, he now needs to show that form for the rest of the year not just a one off game! Gorden still in front of noah atm

for the backrow if they take 2 x 7s with hooper and Mcreight, valetini is a certain and Samu so only 2 spots left, so potentially Gleeson and Wilson May both miss out
Leota and Holloway probs 2 x 6, allthough they could put Holloway as the 4th lock and get an extra back rower in the squad potentially?
also shame Hardwick is not eligible, he is playing awesome rugby atm

I think at the moment

7s Hooper and McReight,
bone breaker 6/8s Valetini & Gleeson
Hybrid 4/6/lineout options/workers Hollaway & Leota (?) /another

The Hybrid 4/6/lineout options/workers are the areas of opportunity, samu looks to be cruising at the moment

 

[Members Section]

Yep. Bobby V is the 8. I just think Samu and Gleeson offer the same thing and might be playing for the same spot. Gleeson is performing higher currently.

Like Hodge I personally think Pete gives you options he can come on across the whole back row covering for anyone & play a role but not the 1st 2 picked at any individual position.

 

[fatprop]

Why do you trust internet stats over the eye test

Savea plays like he is is twice the size

 

[fatprop]

Yep. Bobby V is the 8. I just think Samu and Gleeson offer the same thing and might be playing for the same spot. Gleeson is performing higher currently.

Valetini putting in a shift to be replaced by Gleeson for 30-35 minutes of angry would be my guess

 

[stillmissit]

Like Hodge I personally think Pete gives you options he can come on across the whole back row covering for anyone & play a role but not the 1st 2 picked at any individual position.

MS, you could be right and as the best finisher in Australia combined with your ideas may well give him a spot BUT who misses out? Gleeson?

 

[Members Section]

Valetini putting in a shift to be replaced by Gleeson for 30-35 minutes of angry would be my guess

Bobby is an 80 min player. Worked hard on that for a few years now to get his body right for that role. I mean you could move the back row & locks around & bring Gleeson on & bobby to 6

 

[Members Section]

MS, you could be right and as the best finisher in Australia combined with your ideas may well give him a spot BUT who misses out? Gleeson?

its a balance thing that makes things hard. If you loose Hooper & have Gleeson on the bench we have no one to play as a natural 7.

 

[Braveheart81]

An interesting option around the make up of our best 23 is whether your planned substitutions can be around replacing both locks rather than a backrower.

To do this with a standard 5:3 bench would need one of the replacement locks to be able to play in the backrow (Holloway). Alternatively he starts at 6 and then shifts to lock for the last half an hour. I'm thinking you lose impact there though.

It works better with a 6:2 split and carrying 2 locks and 1 backrower instead of the normal default of 2 backrowers.

I saw some stats from the Springboks who regularly use 6:2 bench splits and their success from the 2 lock replacements was really high.

Let's say you ended up with a 6:2 split you could have something like:

Bell Porecki Ala'alatoa
Frost Skelton
Holloway Hooper Valetini

Res: Slipper, Lonergan, Tupou, Swain, Neville, Gleeson

 

[RebelYell]

An interesting option around the make up of our best 23 is whether your planned substitutions can be around replacing both locks rather than a backrower.

To do this with a standard 5:3 bench would need one of the replacement locks to be able to play in the backrow (Holloway). Alternatively he starts at 6 and then shifts to lock for the last half an hour. I'm thinking you lose impact there though.

It works better with a 6:2 split and carrying 2 locks and 1 backrower instead of the normal default of 2 backrowers.

I saw some stats from the Springboks who regularly use 6:2 bench splits and their success from the 2 lock replacements was really high.

Let's say you ended up with a 6:2 split you could have something like:

Bell Porecki Ala'alatoa
Frost Skelton
Holloway Hooper Valetini

Res: Slipper, Lonergan, Tupou, Swain, Neville, Gleeson

Don't mind it - but I do think Frost is an 80 minute player. If you started Gleeson at 6, shifted Holloway to the bench, then you can have an indulgent backrower like a McReight or even a Wilson/Naisarani type in a 6-2 split.

 

[Braveheart81]

Don't mind it - but I do think Frost is an 80 minute player. If you started Gleeson at 6, shifted Holloway to the bench, then you can have an indulgent backrower like a McReight or even a Wilson/Naisarani type in a 6-2 split.

I guess the premise is around where you can get the most upside out of getting players to empty to the tank and then replace them.

Potentially it's around getting your biggest bodies working the hardest on cleanouts and tackling etc.

I'm mostly just bringing up some different options here. It's interesting that almost every time we see a 6:2 bench it's to carry an extra backrower but there's some (limited) evidence that perhaps two locks is the best way to get upside out of it.

 

[Tex]

On the Gordon/Lolesio chat.

Noah's a class footy player and has a high ceiling, but I reckon the exclusion from the squad is an intentional test from Jones and selectors to watch his response. The ball's entirely in his court.

Gordon is still developing. He's come on in leaps and bounds this season and much of it seems to be the rest of the team deferring to him on the field and respecting his calls. He's not sitting as deep in the pocket as previous years and his ability to take the ball to the line is really impressive. Comparisons to Quade are only fair in some very limited circumstances, and I reckon him passing flat is one of them.

In terms of selection for the Wallabies? I think they're both potential liabilities but you have to take the good with the bad in key positions like 10. Carter is a hell of a lot more robust and physical without sacrificing the ball playing nous, which will stand him good stead for the tougher and harder physical competition at international level.

 

[Members Section]

An interesting option around the make up of our best 23 is whether your planned substitutions can be around replacing both locks rather than a backrower.

To do this with a standard 5:3 bench would need one of the replacement locks to be able to play in the backrow (Holloway). Alternatively he starts at 6 and then shifts to lock for the last half an hour. I'm thinking you lose impact there though.

It works better with a 6:2 split and carrying 2 locks and 1 backrower instead of the normal default of 2 backrowers.

I saw some stats from the Springboks who regularly use 6:2 bench splits and their success from the 2 lock replacements was really high.

Let's say you ended up with a 6:2 split you could have something like:

Bell Porecki Ala'alatoa
Frost Skelton
Holloway Hooper Valetini

Res: Slipper, Lonergan, Tupou, Swain, Neville, Gleeson

The boks use at 6/2 bench but they use Kwagga as an option to play in the back line with his 7's back ground.

For yours you would have to play Hodge at 23 or you would have no flexibility because you would have to play a 9 at 22. Also I would be petrified if we had 2 injuries in the backline none of those bigger guys could defend at 13 late in a game if they were thrown into the backline to cover. You have 2 giraffes & Rhino.