Wallabies 2023

[Marce]

Genuine question - who is currently overseas that would have a homecoming that generates interest among the broader public?

Kerevi, Koroibete, Skelton, Arnold, Coleman

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

There is this unbelievable entitlement in Australian rugby that I feel is somehow tied to the private school roots of the game.

Why should we not have to compete - like everyone else does - for the best talent?

If schoolboys take six figure contracts with a NRL team out of school while we offer them peanuts, people are angry if we go after them later in their career with better offers.

If a player takes an enormous pay increase overseas - making the most of their ten year career - we write them off as mercenaries.

The harsh fact is that a lot of players in the NRL and in Europe are far superior athletes to what we have available.

Could be tied to that but I think a lot of people with private school roots agree that it is a competition for the best talent. I tend to lean towards the thought that there are still elements of RA living in the 1970/80s and assuming it will just happen and our Club comps will produce the talent.

Australia may have handled the initial professionalisation of Rugby well but since then has not adapted. We seem to label players as you say "mercenaries" a lot of people also think of them as greedy and not looking at the organisation and saying why are you playing the game of getting and retaining talent so badly.

 

[PhilClinton]

He's just borrowing buckets of money with great expectations. He will tell us whatever he thinks we want to hear. The building blocks of rugby have been ignored for years, can't see him doing anything sensible. Love to be proven wrong.
'I'm from marketing, I'm here to help'

We haven't agreed on many things but we have the same take on this.

He's come out and said 'heres all our issues, and I'm going to grab some cash and fix them all'

Obviously it's an early statement, there is no cash yet and we haven't seen a plan or anything. But I'm hesitant to believe we can address all things at once with some extra money and see a long term plan which actually works.

 

[Qldtragic]

If Thorn wasn't coaching Reds would still have Izack Rodda & Harry Hockings..

Glad Rodda walked but losing Hockings was a hit we could have done without

 

[LeCheese]

Kerevi, Koroibete, Skelton, Arnold, Coleman

No one outside of existing rugby fans / circles would know any of those names and couldn't care less if they were playing here or overseas.

But the point others have raised around the benefits of bringing talent home to improve the level of competition I absolutely agree with.

 

[stillmissit]

There is this unbelievable entitlement in Australian rugby that I feel is somehow tied to the private school roots of the game.

Why should we not have to compete - like everyone else does - for the best talent?

If schoolboys take six figure contracts with a NRL team out of school while we offer them peanuts, people are angry if we go after them later in their career with better offers.

If a player takes an enormous pay increase overseas - making the most of their ten year career - we write them off as mercenaries.

The harsh fact is that a lot of players in the NRL and in Europe are far superior athletes to what we have available.

Michael, I partially agree. If we were competing for young talent but we don't do a lot of that, we're poor at developing our own and end up buying in talent that others have seen and got good use of - then we buy them. That might be to do with wealthy private school educated people not being prepared to take a chance unless it's on a 'Sure thing'.
We lose our own talent and don't appear to be looking for it anywhere else, we wait until a star is shining and then pay whatever to get them. It has always struck me as wasteful and a poor use of resources - it Points directly at ignoring the grassroots.
As a ref for many years, it always amazed me how some players running around in grade or even subbies rarely get an opportunity to see if they can step up, it used to happen in NZ but I have never seen it in Aus. Bob Dwyer being the only exception I have seen.

 

[stillmissit]

Could be tied to that but I think a lot of people with private school roots agree that it is a competition for the best talent. I tend to lean towards the thought that there are still elements of Rugby Australia living in the 1970/80s and assuming it will just happen and our Club comps will produce the talent.

Australia may have handled the initial professionalisation of Rugby well but since then has not adapted. We seem to label players as you say "mercenaries" a lot of people also think of them as greedy and not looking at the organisation and saying why are you playing the game of getting and retaining talent so badly.

Ghost - It harks back to the not-so-good old amateur days and pommie ideas about entitlement.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

No one outside of existing rugby fans / circles would know any of those names and couldn't care less if they were playing here or overseas.

But the point others have raised around the benefits of bringing talent home to improve the level of competition I absolutely agree with.

Yeah, I really don't think any players will do anything for eyes on the game when supposedly competing with the NRL. I don't think we are. It's totally different worlds of viewership at the Club level. The benefit of bringing these players back would be the success of the teams in Super Rugby and that brings viewers. People get behind a winning team over a player. Rugby doesn't work like the NBA

 

[LeCheese]

We lose our own talent and don't appear to be looking for it anywhere else, we wait until a star is shining and then pay whatever to get them. It has always struck me as wasteful and a poor use of resources - it Points directly at ignoring the grassroots.

Is this true though? The vast, vast majority of those playing Super have come up though the pathways. Even looking at those currently in and around the Wallabies, who's had starts elsewhere before working their way up through Super? The only names that come to mind are Koro, Wright, and Vunivalu.

 

[fatprop]

good interview with Eddie

 

[RugbyReg]

Yeah, I really don't think any players will do anything for eyes on the game when supposedly competing with the NRL. I don't think we are. It's totally different worlds of viewership at the Club level. The benefit of bringing these players back would be the success of the teams in Super Rugby and that brings viewers. People get behind a winning team over a player. Rugby doesn't work like the NBA

I disagree - I think Kerevi and Korobeite for two are players fan (even non rugby fans) would know and want to watch.

Regardless, better players increases our chances of competing better with the kiwis and even winning championships. That's what Australians like more than anything - backing winners

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I disagree - I think Kerevi and Korobeite for two are players fan (even non rugby fans) would know and want to watch.

Regardless, better players increases our chances of competing better with the kiwis and even winning championships. That's what Australians like more than anything - backing winners

Maybe. I'd like to know what difference Korobeite made for the Rebels wider audience but he definitely made them a better team.

I whole heartedly agree with your point about increasing our chance of winning is what Australians like.

 

[Derpus]

Ghost - It harks back to the not-so-good old amateur days and pommie ideas about entitlement.

The English have done a far better job opening up the game to broader appeal than we have. Being somewhat split between the two countries now my impression is that Australians are generally snobbier than the English - outside the Harrow and Eaton types.

 

[Marce]

No one outside of existing rugby fans / circles would know any of those names and couldn't care less if they were playing here or overseas.

In that case, only NRL superstars would attract casual fans to rugby. Names like James Tedesco, Josh Addo-Carr or Cameron Murray.

Even Quade can't attract that, he played several years in OZ and nobody cared about it. Probably the Kiwis are more concerned about him than Aussies outside rugby communitty

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Is this true though? The vast, vast majority of those playing Super have come up though the pathways. Even looking at those currently in and around the Wallabies, who's had starts elsewhere before working their way up through Super? The only names that come to mind are Koro, Wright, and Vunivalu.

You're right and you could even say Wright has a background having gone to Joeys and played the School Boy rep stuff. The Arnold Brothers took an alternate route but there isn't many. This in itself can be taken two ways. They want to say the pathways are working and to look at the production, but it can also be looked at as very isolated and if you weren't picked in the State U18s you might be done as a Rugby player which is atrocious and means the guys in the pathways have to end up professionals because there isn't anyone else to compete with.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

The English have done a far better job opening up the game to broader appeal than we have. Being somewhat split between the two countries now my impression is that Australians are generally snobbier than the English - outside the Harrow and Eaton types.

I'd say the Old English Style might be more appropriate. They have moved forward while we sat on our hands.

 

[fatprop]

In that case, only NRL superstars would attract casual fans to rugby. Names like James Tedesco, Josh Addo-Carr or Cameron Murray.

Even Quade can't attract that, he played several years in OZ and nobody cared about it. Probably the Kiwis are more concerned about him than Aussies outside rugby communitty

At the moment I would be happy just to see the rugby community engaged and pumping

The fickle edge will turn up when decent winning rugby is played

 

[fatprop]

You're right and you could even say Wright has a background having gone to Joeys and played the School Boy rep stuff. The Arnold Brothers took an alternate route but there isn't many. This in itself can be taken two ways. They want to say the pathways are working and to look at the production, but it can also be looked at as very isolated and if you weren't picked in the State U18s you might be done as a Rugby player which is atrocious and means the guys in the pathways have to end up professionals because there isn't anyone else to compete with.

There are basically two juniors pathways, private schools and sport schools

The step after that is the issue, post school, before Super Rugby

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

There are basically two juniors pathways, private schools and sport schools

That's an issue right there. A lot people can't send kids to Private School and may not have access to Sports High Schools. The fact it's dead in the Public System is sad

 

[Braveheart81]

if you weren't picked in the State U18s you might be done as a Rugby player which is atrocious and means the guys in the pathways have to end up professionals because there isn't anyone else to compete with.

On the most part this is going to be true though. If you aren't part of say the top 150 players around the country in your age group you have a very low chance of a professional career in rugby.

On the whole we are pretty good at identifying who the good players are. Even the ones that were supposedly missed and ended up doing well overseas were generally on the radar through those age group rep teams (they just might have been the next group down etc.).