Wallabies 2023

[rodha]

And yet he coached the wallabies first every loss to Italy, he lost two highly qualified assistant coaches in 12 months.

Under Deans, Wallabies churned through 8 assistants - Foley, Graham, Noreiga, Williams, Nuicifora, McGahan, Blades, Shrivnier.

He selected players who were under injury clouds or returning from injury early, and put himself under more pressure by forcing a recurrence of the injury.

Again, Deans arguably did worse:

"I hurt my knee in one of the training sessions and told the management I had a bit of floating cartilage. I said, 'I don't know if I can play', they said, 'No you're sweet, you can get surgery next week in the week off, this is the last week and we need to win it'," Cooper told The Ice Project podcast.

"I went into the game and I couldn't really kick because every time I kicked that bit of cartilage would get stuck in my joint. Willy [Genia], off the kick-off, threw the ball to me, I hesitated to kick and it and ended up getting charged down.

"We won the game and in the media [conference, post-match] Robbie said to the media, 'If we had a reserve to bring on' - all our boys got injured - 'I would have hooked Quade'.

"So we won the game, I'd just played through an injury he knew about, so I felt really let down and embarrassed."

The moment Quade turned on Robbie Deans

'I felt really let down and embarrassed'

wwos.nine.com.au

And the selection issues you mentioned aren't unprecedented to say the least, previous coaches were just as guilty, Cheika 2018-19, Dean's blind dart-board selections from 2011-13. Throwing O'Connor into 10 for Australia's most important match since 2003 World Cup final, arguably the single most detrimental selection in Wallabies history?

And the infamous track record against the big brother hasn't got any worse - if anything, it's slightly improved.

Remember, Dave Rennie managed a draw & a win against the All Blacks in his 1st season as head coach.

In contrast, Robbie Deans across 6 seasons managed just 3 wins in 19 matches against the All Blacks.

 

[Wilson]

McLennan has confirmed that there will be no change to the Giteau Law this year:

Rugby Australia to stand by Giteau Law as Eddie Jones returns

As Eddie Jones prepares to arrive in Australia and begin his Wallabies revolution, Rugby Australia says the Giteau Rule will not be tweaked before the World Cup.

www.abc.net.au

 

[dru]

Would Rennie have survived if they had beaten Italy?

Interesting I was about to follow this thread to a post from rodha - the first of his I agree with.

Winning against Italy would have completely changed Rennie's reputation and he would have been much more solid. BUT, I suspect what drove that call was Eddie Jones becoming available. I'm not sure Rennie would have survived with an Italy win.

 

[Ignoto]

Under Deans, Wallabies churned through 8 assistants - Foley, Graham, Noreiga, Williams, Nuicifora, McGahan, Blades, Shrivnier.

Jesus, when you list then Rodha, I agree. Whoever picked those ACs has a terrible choice. Has any of them gone on to coach a successful team? (Honest question as I haven't a clue).

 

[Adam84]

In either case, Rennie nor Deans are in charge of the Wallabies for 2023.. Maybe we need a coaching nostalgia thread for those who wish to lament on the issue further. Otherwise I'm supporting the Wallabies team for 2023, regardless of who is coaching.

 

[rodha]

Jesus, when you list then Rodha, I agree.

I somehow forget about Phil Blake, so that's 9 different assistants between 2008-13.

 

[Adam84]

McLennan has confirmed that there will be no change to the Giteau Law this year:

Rugby Australia to stand by Giteau Law as Eddie Jones returns

As Eddie Jones prepares to arrive in Australia and begin his Wallabies revolution, Rugby Australia says the Giteau Rule will not be tweaked before the World Cup.

www.abc.net.au

Yep and it's obvious why, test selection serves as a big carrot for retaining players in Super Rugby.

McLennans comments:

"It's there for a reason. We've made a commitment to New Zealand and Super Rugby. We have a new competition that will go through to 2030 so we are thinking long term.

"RA have to do a better job over the long term in sorting those pathways out, but there's some very good players out there.

"We need to get more players back from overseas. [The Giteau Law] isn't something, in a wholesale sense, we want to play with too much when we look at it for this year and beyond.

"But we've definitely got great players. We really believe we can give the World Cup a shake this year."

 

[Wilson]

Yep and it's obvious why, test selection serves as a big carrot for retaining players in Super Rugby.

McLennans comments:

Yeah, I think we're going to see the plans to bring some players back come to fruition soon. McLennan has been very bullish about not changing the Giteau Law and instead focusing on getting players back, I suspect part of the reason is that he's confident in the deals they've been working on.

 

[rodha]

In either case, Rennie nor Deans are in charge of the Wallabies for 2023.. Maybe we need a coaching nostalgia thread for those who wish to lament on the issue further. Otherwise I'm supporting the Wallabies team for 2023, regardless of who is coaching.

Ironically, that seems to be primary driving force behind Eddie's appointment, despite being 63 now, they're still confident (against pretty significant odds) that he can somehow roll back the years & deliver great results when clearly his best coaching years are behind him (2013-2016).

Ahh... the tragic ARU old-boys, heedlessly pining for the glory days, a fool's hope. Impulsive, reactionary, and short-sighted governance. Rennie's dismissal cunningly orchestrated by the aptly titled Machiavellian McLennan, he's a slippery fella, that one. "Fast Eddie" might be required to live up to his nickname.... in order to dodge the inevitable knife to the back!!!!

 

[Confucius Say]

And yet he coached the wallabies first every loss to Italy, he lost two highly qualified assistant coaches in 12 months, had a disproportionate number of injuries and had the most poorly disciplined Tier 1 test team in world rugby. I'd say Rennie lost his composure in the end, his decision making in 2022 shifted from someone with a plan, to someone of desperation.

He selected players who were under injury clouds or returning from injury early, and put himself under more pressure by forcing a recurrence of the injury. One week he would complain about discipline and talk about holding players accountable, the next week he is selecting players who had already been sin-binned for stupid decisions the preceding week. Something was clearly amiss in that Wallaby camp.

Not to ignore the variables which influenced the outcomes, but Rennie created some of these pressures himself.

The analysis tonight is compelling and educational reading.

 

[HogansHeros]

This will be the last I respond to this nonsense, as saying a man with a 36% record that replaced a man with a 50% win record greatly improved his team is just nonsensical.

- Massive injury toll? Mainly his fault. He had the same problem at the Chiefs, he over trains players and they break down.
- Covid? Every country in the world was affected by covid, not just Dave Rennie. Didnt bother Andy Farrell too much. Hell, the Wallabies got the whole 2020 Tri Nations played in Australia and still came last

-Depth? What depth? We have no preferred hooker, no preferred Blindside Flanker, No preferred halfback, No Preferred First Five, no preferred fullback. That's no building depth, it's playing musical chairs because you're not a great selector
-Our set piece is still average, line out has been poor and line out drive non existent for the most part. Breakdown work has also been spotty, they were blown out at the breakdown numerous times this season

Improving teams don't lose 48-17 to Argentina, Improving teams don't lose to Italy

By the way Eddie won the 6 Nations in 2020

No it was badluck

 

[Adam84]

Ironically, that seems to be primary driving force behind Eddie's appointment, despite being 63 now, they're still confident that (against pretty significant odds) he can roll back the years & deliver great results when clearly his best coaching days are behind him (2013-2016).

Even with his best days behind him; England secured the Grand Slam in 2016, had an 18 game record equaling win streak between 2016-2017, took England to the RWC GF in 2019, won the Autumn Nations Series the 6 Nations and Triple Crown in 2020, and beat the Wallabies in an away test series in 2022, finishing with a 91% success rate against Australia..

Whatever your grievance, I'll support the Wallabies in 2023

 

[rodha]

Even with his best days behind him; England secured the Grand Slam in 2016, had an 18 game record equaling win streak between 2016-2017, took England to the RWC GF in 2019, won the Autumn Nations Series the 6 Nations and Triple Crown in 2020, and beat the Wallabies in an away test series in 2022, finishing with a 91% success rate against Australia.

Context is everything. Surely one must understand, England were in a particularly enviable position for 2016-2019 cycle.

England had won U20's World Championship's for 2013, 2014, 2016.

Additionally, were runners-up for 2008, 2009, 2010.

Eddie inherited a golden playing generation blooded initially by Lancaster, but were too young then - were approx. 2-3 years from peaking (enter the 2016-2019 cycle). Therefore, Eddie's success was just as much a product of good timing. Right time, right place.

Borthwick was 1/2 the brains behind the operation, hence Eddie's win-rate is 42% after he left in 2020. 80% with Borthwick.

beat the Wallabies in an away test series in 2022

So... as most had overwelmingly predicted.. the 4th-ranked (at the time) side in the world, beat the 8th-ranked nation.

 

[Adam84]

Not bad for a coach past his prime.
Anyway back to Wallabies 2023

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

McLennan has confirmed that there will be no change to the Giteau Law this year:

Rugby Australia to stand by Giteau Law as Eddie Jones returns

As Eddie Jones prepares to arrive in Australia and begin his Wallabies revolution, Rugby Australia says the Giteau Rule will not be tweaked before the World Cup.

www.abc.net.au

I think that’s crazy in a RWC year

 

[Derpus]

Yeah, I think we're going to see the plans to bring some players back come to fruition soon. McLennan has been very bullish about not changing the Giteau Law and instead focusing on getting players back, I suspect part of the reason is that he's confident in the deals they've been working on.

He more or less said on the Rugby Report Card that he is securing a PE deal and will use the money on bringing guys back.

 

[Adam84]

He more or less said on the Rugby Report Card that he is securing a private equity deal and will use the money on bringing guys back.

I think they key points to consider are that the current Stan/Nine broadcast agreement expires end of this year, although there is an option for 2024 & 2025.

It’s no secret RA took a massive hit on the current agreement, it was covid and they were negotiating from a pretty weak position of insolvency. Next agreement they will be aiming for a pretty big uplift, I think part of the strategy will be brining some of those guys home between now and 2025 to boost rugbys profile again, to give themselves a stronger position to negotiate from.

 

[LeCheese]

I think part of the strategy will be brining some of those guys home between now and 2025 to boost rugbys profile again, to give themselves a stronger position to negotiate from.

Genuine question - who is currently overseas that would have a homecoming that generates interest among the broader public?

The only name that comes to mind of someone who has transcended rugby and has broader recognition would be Quade (and of course Folau, but not touching that). Maybe Koro because of the league connection? Anyone other than that and it would only be us tragics getting all hot and bothered.

 

[Derpus]

Genuine question - who is currently overseas that would have a homecoming that generates interest among the broader public?

The only name that comes to mind of someone who has transcended rugby and has broader recognition would be Quade (and of course Folau, but not touching that). Maybe Koro because of the league connection? Anyone other than that and it would only be us tragics getting all hot and bothered.

I think its more about making the Aussie sides as competitive as possible.

 

[TSR]

Guys like Kerevi, Skelton, Salakai-Loto & Isaac Lucas would add spark to any of our existing teams. Then there are a whole bunch of other guys who would just lift the standards of our teams.