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Wallabies 2021

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
All true. There have also been plenty of guys who have changed positions (multiple times) in the backline and moved between lock & backrow.

I guess I was more asking if there was anyone at high level which have made a position change which requires significantly different core skills as is being suggested with Fa’amausili moving from Prop to number 8.

One thing to bear in mind, is that he does not have a lot of rugby experience, from what I have read, he had a league background. So in either case, as a prop, or in another position, he still has a lot to learn. But what a ball runner he is. Give him a few metres to wind up, and watch out!!!
 
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Jimmy_Crouch

Ken Catchpole (46)
Oh, that reminds me of Robbie Dean's great decision to take a undercooked Drew Mitchell to the 2011 RWC where we had Radike on the Wing against Russia!


Your top number 8 on the wing in a nothing game rather than just putting the third string half back who had come from 7s and yet to play in the tournament.

100% the most idiotic decision of the entire Deans era.
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Didn’t Pocock play 12 in juniors? I think there’s switching and there’s switching. Like HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) switched this year to THP to fill in for Kepu leaving. But if you’ve played as a prop in juniors you’ve probably switched sides on occasion. Usually a 6 will move in to the second row during games. I could see Fa’amausili move to 8. It’s strange when you think about our scrummaging woes years ago that today someone may move up the pecking order by moving from the front row to the back row.
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Ken Catchpole (46)
Fa’amausili has a point of difference to other tightheads. Why try and change that? To play in the backrow he would need to dramatically increase his aerobic capacity. Leave him there and continue to teach him to scrum.
 
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Ignoto

Peter Sullivan (51)
Pocock got chucked in the centres as he had to cover Quade at fly half in that Churchie 1st XV. You can't convince me otherwise.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Well, I’m not going to try and list 10 but moving Kepu to LH, where he struggled; picking Quade Cooper at 10 & playing a game plan which was more suited to Berrick Barnes & not having a back up 7 for the 2011 WC stick out. Plus all of his press conferences.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
I guess I was more asking if there was anyone at high level which have made a position change which requires significantly different core skills as is being suggested with Fa’amausili moving from Prop to number 8.

Humour me. What is a "core skill"? Has Fa'amausili got all the core skills for his current position? Has he got any that are applicable to playing #8?

Billy Vunipola runs the ball back from a deep position and makes lots of metres, doesn't look all that skillful to me, surely that could be Pone.
 
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Froggy

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Bernie Larkham played junior rugby (and I think club rugby) as a scrum half, he was then 15 for the Brumbies, made his test debut on the wing, and was then selected at 10 by McQueen (who had a bit of a habit of getting those things right).
 

Froggy

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I'm not sure the ability to run the ball up hard covers all the skill set needed for a good 8. If you want an example of the skill-set for a complete number 8 look at Zinzan Brooke (admittedly that's setting the bar pretty high). Yes, he could run the ball up hard, but also scrummage, a line-out jumper, great cover defender, could drop back when the fullback was up and was perfectly safe under the high ball, kick if necessary, and could pass and provide a link between forwards and backs.
Just a couple more things for Pone to work on!
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Humour me. What is a "core skill"? Has Fa'amausili got all the core skills for his current position? Has he got any that are applicable to playing #8?

Billy Vunipola runs the ball back from a deep position and makes lots of metres, doesn't look all that skillful to me, surely that could be Pone.
Sure. Don’t get me wrong - I might be a bit forceful (and long winded) in my opinions, but always happy to chat rugby/hear someone else’s.

A big part of Fa’amausili’s development so far will have been around developing his scrummaging. Personally I thought he looked like that was coming along well. Work in progress, sure, but plenty of promise. He is selected in the squad as a prop and the Rebels clearly need him there so that won’t be changing this season at least. So all of his S&C work will be done around his position requirements.

At number 8 he would be required to cover far more ground. Be leaner, more athletic and quicker. It is preferable that they can be used as a jumper in the line out and they can control a ball at the back of the scrum.

Plenty of skills in general play are transferable. As you’ve pointed out he is already a strong ball runner. He’d only get better at it if that was the focus. His defence is good. But Props need to do that stuff too. It isn’t specific to backrowers - they just need to do lots more of it.

I’m not saying they couldn’t transform him if they really wanted to. Look at the work they did with Sam Burgess when they bought him across (incidentally he is the sort of example I was trying to think of of a player who they changed positions at senior professional level).

But why would you? At 23 he’s already a Wallaby squad member at prop. All of the investment has been to make him world class in that position and it’s working. If you move him to now (remembering it’s definitely not happening this year) you set him back at least 12 months, probably 2 years. He’s on an upwards trajectory now and he’s already done something of an apprenticeship in scrummaging as a THP - which is the key position specific issue at play.

Taking a guy who is 16-19 and re-casting him to let him fulfil his potential happens all the time and makes perfect sense to me. You are talking guys who are just starting out.

Likewise playing a guy who is Professional level out of position at a lower level works too - guys like Toutai Kefu & Radike Samo could play in the backs against lower level opposition because they had the cross over skills to make it work against lower opposition.

But once guys get to Super Rugby squad level there has already been significant levels of planning and training done around their positions. I’d guess most of them have already played at least 5-6 positions in juniors. Pro-coaches have done their analysis and put them in the spot where they can get best utility from them. There might only be subtle shortcomings if they are in a different spot, but they’ll get ruthlessly exposed at top level (eg LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) at 6 or most props playing on their non-preferred side).

The investment in Pone is going great. Why change tracks mid-stream? It makes no sense to me.
 
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