Wallabies 2020

[Bobby Sands]

How have the professional rugby careers worked out for former Queensland Australian Schoolboy backs:

Lindsay Crook
Dion Taumata
Walter Petaia
Craig Hunt
Jack Tuttle
Adrian Henley
Mitchell Third
Liam Jurd
James Todd
Joey Fittock
Jayden Ngamanu
Jordan Lenac
William Eadie
Joshua Vuta
Tristan Stanghon

It seems like there's a fairly high percentage of Queensland schoolboy standouts who never go anywhere either. Are these guys picked based on showing quite different attributes to the NSW players? Is it creating a higher strike rate of unearthing future professional stars?

Of for sure! Great list.

I just more meant of the players to be picked at the next level.

Watch for Mac Grealy next year too.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If your takeaway from watching North vs South was they will put 50 on us I’m afraid you didn’t watch it closely enough. My takeaway was we can put 50 on them.

Yeah there was some exciting but also some pretty loose footy played in that game. A cohesive defensive unit who is effective on the counter could do pretty well.

 

[Up the Guts]

Pretty much they all were leaguies right through. Crichton is a notable case that was lost to rugby and perhaps there was a chance to sign Moretti although I'm not sure.

2015 is a good case study, Cameron Murray won a GPS premiership but was always a League player and we didn't even try luring him over. On the other hand, we lost Tom Wright to Manly that same year who we really should have kept.

 

[Derpus]

Crichton certainly has a rugby pedigree - dad went to Scots, played Aus schools in ‘87, mum was a Frensham girl and her brother also went to Scots - but he grew up playing league, because the Young Yabbies don’t have juniors. Maybe that’s where he got the taste for it.

I fucken hate hate how rugby pedigree = 'he went to some posh school'

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it is.

JOC (James O'Connor), Sautia, Petaia, To'omua, Jock Campbell (played 2s at school), Banks, Hunt, Muirhead, Tevita, Kerevi, Pasitoa etc have all come through QLD schools recently.

The equivalent list of Waratahs Wallabies over the same time would be Beale, Betham, Foley, Hodge, Horne and Maddocks to go against JOC (James O'Connor), Sautia, To'omua, Kuridrani, Kerevi and Banks.

And the uncapped players reasonably recent NSW names that would be similar Tom Wright, Will Harrison, Ben Donaldson, Bayley Kuenzle, James Ramm, Mark Nawaqanitawase etc.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Yeah I'd much prefer that pedigree be: family have a history in club footy, the player in question came up through XXX juniors etc

 

[KOB1987]

I fucken hate hate how rugby pedigree = 'he went to some posh school'

It’s actually because Scots is a school that plays rugby and has forever, and his dad played Aus schools. But you can interpret it like that if you want, matters me not.

 

[KOB1987]

Yeah I'd much prefer that pedigree be: family have a history in club footy, the player in question came up through XXX juniors etc

That would equally qualify as a rugby pedigree.

 

[Forcefield]

Did you see some of the tries? Yeah I get it limited prep and all but the defence was absolutely non-existent at times. My point was more the attack only looked good because of poor defence than anything serious about 50 on them.

Totally agree with your points. One thing to remember is that the Kiwis are playing with different expectations around the ruck (more strict). This leads to cleaner, quicker ball and better attack and poorer defense. I think we will be in trouble if we play to those expectations from discipline, defensive re organisation and fitness point of view; however, I think we will play under the "normal" interpretations and the Kiwis may struggle to transition (so might we with the goal line drop-outs and other rule variations). I don't know about anyone else, but New Zealand's forward pack doesn't appear as threatening as it has in the past. Perhaps that is just due to no Retallick.

 

[Brumby Runner]

“These [forwards] are all big and physical, and these are the type of guys we're going to need against the bigger teams [such as] England and South Africa. We need guys who can create momentum just through brutality. They can make space for us by taking a man on. We need that. It's been identified.”

This is a quote from NZ Assistant Coach Plumtree, taken from a post by Zer0 in the NZTeam watch thread.

Says it all about the type of players needed at test match level. In my book, were we to go down that same track, we'll see players like Matt Philip, Cadeyrn Neville, Rob Valetini, Jack Dempsey, Isi Naisarani and Pete Samu in the match day 23s. Then, of course, we have the most dangerous forward in the world in Tupou to show the way. Sio at LHP hasn't had the best of form but never gets belted backwards when carrying the ball, and some of his hits in defense will be felt for days. These are the players we need to take on the ABs, and anyone else who happens to stray across our shores. Add in Wilson too for his dynamic running and we will be a match up front for most teams.

So, I'd be looking at a front row of Sio, FF (Folau Fainga'a)/BPA, Tupou to start with Slipper and Ala'alatoa coming off the bench.

Second row I'd start with Philip and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) with Neville off the bench.

My back row would start with Valetini at 6 and Dempsey at 8. To provide a balanced unit with emphasis on having an extra presence at lineout time, I'd go with Wright at 7. Samu, Naisarani and Wilson to all get time off the bench over the series (whether it is 4 x Bledisloe, or TRC).

In summary:

Sio FF (Folau Fainga'a) (more accurate throw than BPA) Tupou
Philip LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
Valetini Dempsey Wright

Sio, Tupou, Philip, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Valetini and Dempsey all capable of winning the collision; FF (Folau Fainga'a) and Wright to bring the necessary skills to make up a complete forwards pack. Philip, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Wright and Dempsey give a very strong lineout presence, supplemeted by Neville off the bench as one of the better operators in SRAu. Samu, Naisarani or Wilson all add excellent attacking options.

 

[Wilson]

Can't justify starting Sio the way he's been scrummaging this year, has to be Slipper starting.

 

[rugboy]

I fucken hate hate how rugby pedigree = 'he went to some posh school'

Definitely not the case for Crichton. Angus played young yabbies as a junior, old man played schoolboys and Randwick. From what I understand the link to the Young Cherrypickers was made up for rugby league purposes.

 

[Derpus]

Sio will be lucky to hang on to his bench spot. Slipper all day for me.

I think Uelese will beat BPA to the bench spot. I saw during the Rebels/Force game that he actually has the highest succesful throw rate in Aus (though he then proceeded to throw some real wobbly ones).

 

[Braveheart81]

Of for sure! Great list.

I just more meant of the players to be picked at the next level.

Watch for Mac Grealy next year too.

I could name a bunch of solid yet unspectacular Queensland schoolboys and under 20s reps who've gone on to be average professional players.

I'm not sure we've established that there's a particularly different group of players making it to the top junior levels in Queensland vs NSW or elsewhere. Some stars, some journeymen and plenty who go absolutely nowhere.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I could name a bunch of solid yet unspectacular Queensland schoolboys and under 20s reps who've gone on to be average professional players.

I'm not sure we've established that there's a particularly different group of players making it to the top junior levels in Queensland vs NSW or elsewhere. Some stars, some journeymen and plenty who go absolutely nowhere.

Beauty.

Anyway, I hope some of those guns are identified & sign with NSW soon.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Walton is a proper talent. He wasn't in that U20s side last year for some reason but was instead playing in the NSW Country Eagles NRC senior team as a 19 year old. Give him a bit of time, he goes pretty well.

Walton for his age and first season of super rugby performed above my expectations. Bit harsh to not be giving him a bit more credit for what he has achieved and so young and early in his pro career would be silly to say he won’t improve.

 

[Bobby Sands]

15. Jock

He won’t get a shot, but if he did he wouldn’t let anyone down and would probably surprise a few. In saying that, if he has a big finals series he’s every chance to get in the squad.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Walton for his age and first season of super rugby performed above my expectations. Bit harsh to not be giving him a bit more credit for what he has achieved and so young and early in his pro career would be silly to say he won’t improve.

This is more than fair.

I wasn’t trying to bin Walton, he is going well. I was more just puzzled about his attacking game. He seems a very dependable, no-nonsense centre which are very valuable.

 

[Number 7]

There are too many opportunities in the NRL in the Sydney area for our code to be able to compete for the best. Plus they can sign kids up at an earlier age than we can.

I'm not sure the age comment is 100% correct. You cannot register an NRL contract with a player until they are 17 and they cannot play NRL until 18. A younger player can get a "Junior Development Contract" to play SG Ball with a club however that contract does not stop them playing any other sport - JDC's simply stop them playing for another junior league team and privides some compensation where a junior player moves from their original registered club or region. There are some scholarships being paid by league teams for junior players however they are the exception rather than the norm. There are also rules against player agents signing league players at a young age - a number of years ago there was a lot of exploitation and the NRL stepped in to clamp down on it.

Rugby now has the "Fighting Fund" (https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/... the organisation set,into rugby, with the no.) which was a Raelene Castle initiative which provides funds to players as young as 16 (eg: Reesjan Pasitoa) to stay in Rugby. Players such as Will Harris, Billy Pollard and Zane Nongorr have benifitted from this scheme at 17-18 years of age. Its not a lot of money (up to $30k) but at that age it can make a difference.

You are right about more opportunities in NRL for sure. Rugby is 2 years into the fighting fund so lets see if things turn around. I was really pleased when I saw Pollard stay in union because he had a pretty good junior league pedigree and has the potential to be a very dynamic player. The Brumbies will be good for him.

 

[Number 7]

I fucken hate hate how rugby pedigree = 'he went to some posh school'

I hear you but as much as Id love to see a lot more more kids come through the club programs, there is an extent to which we should be thanking the "posh schools". They identify talented athletes, provide them with elite coaches (Scots has an ex-Engalnd assistant coach), give them professional S&C programs and immerse them in a system where rugby is the main sport and really matters. Some of these kids are coming out with professional habits which they wont get from being coached by part time dads (or mums) at amateur clubs.

There are positive changes afoot. In years gone by the best way to get identified by an elite senior program was to go through the Australian Schools team which was the major recruitment showcase and effectively excluded kids playing club football from the main talent identification opportunity. The ARU implemented a positive initiative last year by broadening the pathway in changing the Australian Schoolboys team to the Australian Schools and u18's team hence eliminating some of the elite school bias. It isnt perfect but it is a good thing I think as it takes the focus away from elite school programs as the main pathway.

You may have known all this, apologies if you did. I never went to a posh school and played country and club rugby. My son goes to a rugby school and I he is learning more there than I did in my whole very average rugby career and I am thankful for that. I just wish there were more elite programs available to talented kids outside the private school programs.