Wallabies 2019 Thread

[fatprop]

Why are Tahs so staunchly supportive of Foley?

It’s like Trump rhetoric.

Let’s just see what happens shall we.

He is the best we have, he ain't Beauden Barrett, but he is it. You may disagree, fine, but that is my opinion.

So you work to his strengths and supplement his weaknesses through an intelligent game plan, to me it is only logical.

His key weakness everyone highlights is the length of his clearance kick, so you have the 9 clear

I have never seen the point in passing back 15 to make 40 anyway, let the 9 make 30

 

[fatprop]

Bang on, let the process decide.

We can’t win the cup with Foley at 10 in my opinion.

Well I don't think we can win the cup full stop, quarters is a pass IMHO (we ain't that good), semis is a win, final would be "WTF - how?", win the thing would be a miracle

 

[liquor box]

He is the best we have, he ain't Beauden Barrett, but he is it. You may disagree, fine, but that is my opinion.

So you work to his strengths and supplement his weaknesses through an intelligent game plan, to me it is only logical.

His key weakness everyone highlights is the length of his clearance kick, so you have the 9 clear

I have never seen the point in passing back 15 to make 40 anyway, let the 9 make 30

or don't clear the ball and run with it

 

[TSR]

We tried just retaining the ball and running it for a while. Problem is if you can’t clear effectively it makes it too easy for defence.

 

[Forcefield]

Don't know if its already been said and can't be bothered to look back, is anyone else glad we get a chance to see a non-Pooper line up? Would love to see LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) or Jones at 6 and Naisarani at 8.

I'm no fan of Foley, but you can't say he didn't rise for the last RWC.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Why are some so critical of him, or anyone? If you think most people posting on here don't have biases, you're dreaming.
Personally, I think all the candidates at 10 have deficiencies. So, what Fatprop said is true - you pick whoever and work around their shortcomings. I'm guessing they'll all get some time. Then we'll have the debate about who else played with whoever and how that was unfair on player X, who had to play with player Y who is crappier than player Z and so on.
I think Foley has benefitted from being generally fit, reliable enough without being spectacular usually, while others have been more mercurial, with greater variances in form, and indeed fitness (yes, Cooper etc.).
We are not so lucky as NZ who have often had several very good 10s to choose from; hell, usually plenty of good players in every position.
I also agree that whether we win or lose the RWC (as a middle ranked team) will depend far more on what the forwards do, than the backs. I think there will be enough firepower in the backs to score points if we get good ball.

Cyclo, you forgot to mention that Foley has had to play behind a beaten pack all year. That's always been a favourite.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Good point. Although a few points for thought:-
This year, DHP has been less good. Overall and kicking. Hopefully he'll come on with his game in squad time.
Leali'ifano has been a bit hit and miss too. Hence Banks does a lot of it for the Brumbies.
Hodge needs to command a spot for his overall game, not just being wonder-boot.
They might use more box-kicks for touch / 22-exits from the 9s - certainly would boost White's claim.
This year, I think Foley has slightly improved from the hand; Beale has gone a bit backwards. I didn't watch all the games though. Under the pressure of Tests, concerning.
O'Connor maybe??? Always had a decent boot.

Yep, from what I saw, which was most of the Super Rugby games, Foley has certainly improved his distance kicking from hand. He is still quite a bit shorter than Hodge and Banks. The mystery to me has been why Cheika has continued to use Foley as the main kicker in the side when he has had the likes of Hodge available to him. The Brumbies got it pretty well right with Simone (also a long kicker in general play) and Banks taking most of the kicks for line and/or territory this year. Christian was used primarily for tactical kicking (into the legs of the oncoming defense, chip kicks in their own 22m area, etc). Can't see why the Wallabies haven't taken a similar approach.

 

[fatprop]

Cyclo, you forgot to mention that Foley has had to play behind a beaten pack all year. That's always been a favourite.

surviving behind a beaten pack could be considered good situational training for any wallaby 10

 

[wamberal]

surviving behind a beaten pack could be considered good situational training for any wallaby 10

The difference now is that we might just be able to scrape together an 8 that is actually competitive. If that is the case, Foley should be okay. Not that he is my favourite 10, for starters because of his pathetic kicking, but he looks like the best of a pretty sad bunch.


If I were the coach, I would be trying Britney O'Connor out pretty quickly.

 

[Derpus]

Cyclo, you forgot to mention that Foley has had to play behind a beaten pack all year. That's always been a favourite.

And it's true. You see how shit Lilo looked against the Jaguares who completely dominated the Brumbies pack?

 

[Viking]

Good point. Although a few points for thought:-
This year, DHP has been less good. Overall and kicking. Hopefully he'll come on with his game in squad time.
Leali'ifano has been a bit hit and miss too. Hence Banks does a lot of it for the Brumbies.
Hodge needs to command a spot for his overall game, not just being wonder-boot.
They might use more box-kicks for touch / 22-exits from the 9s - certainly would boost White's claim.
This year, I think Foley has slightly improved from the hand; Beale has gone a bit backwards. I didn't watch all the games though. Under the pressure of Tests, concerning.
O'Connor maybe??? Always had a decent boot.

On form Banks clearly the most consistent kicker. I'd have him at 15 for that reason.
Lilo can exit from the 22 consistently - which has always been a struggle with the wallabies, although I agree his general play kicking has been hit and miss - although mostly poor choice with grubbers etc.
Powell's box-kicking is always under-rated. Id say he has a solid box kick. White may have distance but as we all know his decision making can be off at times.

O'Connor would be my pick for wing to inject another kicker - but he may be too slow for the wing these days. Same way I feel about DHP as a winger.

I feel wallabies kicking game has been a downfall for years now and we should start prioritising it more. Half the success of the last world cup was built on Gits left boot taking pressure off Foley.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think our Forwards are packed with X-Factor, I'm going to mention Brumbies forwards here, because that's who I watched the most, but AAA, SIO, FF (Folau Fainga'a), Slipper, Arnold, all have great hands and great interplay creating so much space, add in Hooper, Isi and another big running 6 LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) / Vanetini off the platform, you have 3 hard running backs in TK/KK/MK being hit from Genia/White and whoevers at 5'8. Do we really need our other 2 players to have at the back to have x factor.

Not to mention that our bench will have one of Sio/Slipper and Thor injecting late and possible some pace in Beale, I think we are covered pretty well.

Yep fair call but nz have X factor forwards and backs and sadly on X factor for backs I am struggling to name any clear candidates

 

[Derpus]

Kerevi seems to have a fairly large, if underused, boot. Mebe give him a few clearance kicks.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

dunno. Petaia, Lucas, Harrison and Loloesio seem pretty damn high quality. Obviously the other 20s backs have some ability too. Then there is the young bunch playing Super Rugby in McDermott, Stewart, Maddocks, Ikitau, etc.

And there are a handful of pretty talented ones coming through up here too in the likes of Gordon and Pasitoa.

I'm not too concerned yet.

Couple of X factor ones (backs) we seem to lose to league

 

[Viking]

Screw X-Factor... give me a combination of solid all-rounders any day - at least for Test rugby.

 

[Brumby Runner]

And it's true. You see how shit Lilo looked against the Jaguares who completely dominated the Brumbies pack?

Nah, dominated the lineout but not the scrums or in general play (where I think the Jaguares finished on top be not in a dominant position. Rory Arnold was still about the best forward on the park). The Brumbies had one really off day.

The point behind my post was that the poor Tahs scrum is often quoted as the reason for Foley's poor form, while the stronger Brumbies pack is also offered as explanation for Christian's form. It never seems to be acknowledged by some that one player is probably in better form than the other.

 

[cyclopath]

Cyclo, you forgot to mention that Foley has had to play behind a beaten pack all year. That's always been a favourite.

I didn't forget to mention anything.

 

[cyclopath]

Nah, dominated the lineout but not the scrums or in general play (where I think the Jaguares finished on top be not in a dominant position. Rory Arnold was still about the best forward on the park). The Brumbies had one really off day.

The point behind my post was that the poor Tahs scrum is often quoted as the reason for Foley's poor form, while the stronger Brumbies pack is also offered as explanation for Christian's form. It never seems to be acknowledged by some that one player is probably in better form than the other.

ANY 10 (and 9 for that matter) will play better behind a dominant, advancing pack. It's called rugby 101.
I didn't use it as an excuse, because it isn't. Every game (usually) will have ebbs and flows when teams are under pressure, so the ability to counter that / get out of the shit is part and parcel of the skillset required. I don't think any of the Aus teams have looked especially good when under the pump, to be honest. Some of the Kiwi teams seem to be able to soak it up pretty well though. Must be something in that, eh?

 

[Joe Blow]

White also has a prodigious kick for touch. If Hodge is not around he is good to have in the 23.

 

[Braveheart81]

Foley and Beale really don't have the necessary kicking game we need to get out of our own 22. DHP/Hodge and Banks from what I've seen get on average another 10 - 20 metres from general play than the pop-gun specialists.

I don't think DHP's general play kicking game is particularly good at all. It's probably his weakest point against Beale and Banks.

Hodge has a huge boot but he does so with glacial speed. He is not a strong exit option in my opinion because he is too slow at getting the kick away.

The box kick clearance is definitely something most of our 9 options need to improve. If you're not pinned on your goal line it's often the best option to make easy metres.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't think the box kicking has necessarily been poor, it's just with a poor or non-existent chase and a reluctance for chasers to actually compete with the opposition that the overall effect is less than we would want. Aussie chasers, by and large, maybe Koroibete is the exception, seem to be gun shy of competing in case they stuff up and earn a YC. By contrast, how many times do we see Ben Smith compete and win the ball after he or his No 9 has put in a box kick. Very frustrating.