Wales vs Springbokke

[Cardiffblue]

Just watched the game.
Wales were basically handed the game on a platter with that rubbish yellow card.

The fact that you were stuck in SA's half for the length of Hendricks' sin bin (and then some) and still couldn't score a point was markedly average.

But that was overshadowed by how badly some of the main SA figures played; Lambie, le Roux, Hougaard all made some really simple errors.

You got the proverbial monkey off your back I suppose, so congratulations on the win.

For all our troubles in the forwards, I remain quietly confident that Wales are still our bunnies, and we'll get out of our pool with England.

You're not making me feel any less proud of the bois Knocking off #2 ranked team. And you can be sure that ch won't be losing sleep.

Don't agree re: the yellow card. It was the third, maybe not the worst. It did put 1/2p out of the game. And the laws are clear. 1/2p himself has been on the reverse end of even dodgier yellows. Think jdeV injury was more telling

As for scoring tries. We didn't have any problems vs Australia so I'm not unduly worried.

You're quietly confident? All of a sudden so am I. Think our 6n prep will be better than getting flogged again twice by nz and possibly losing again in Argentina. First up orcland in Cardiff and we've got Ireland at home this year too

And we do finally seem to have discovered a couple of half backs and there are more on the horizon at last

 

[Bairdy]

Yeah right. I'm not surprised you think Hendricks deserved a yellow.

Cornal Hendricks was contesting the ball fairly; it's not his fault that 1/2p, in the act of contesting the ball, couldn't land safely.

At best it was a penalty to Wales because a case could be made that in the act of contesting the ball in the air, Hendricks "pushed" him (law 10.4 i.) but that case could only be made because 1/2p is a small bloke and so he came out second best from the collision.

Ha, you think playing against the 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th and 14th best sides in the world is better prep than playing the top 2 and 9th? No wonder the results between Wales and Australia are so one-sided in your favour..........

 

[Cardiffblue]

Yeah right. I'm not surprised you think Hendricks deserved a yellow.

Ha, you think playing against the 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th and 14th best sides in the world is better prep than playing the top 2 and 9th? No wonder the results between Wales and Australia are so one-sided in your favour....

View attachment 5692

Well, yes i do actually x 2.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Do you have the table of results for Wales vs South Africa? It's more one sided and a hundred years long and results a lot less close. It's also equally irrelevant after yesterday.

 

[mark_s]

JdV's injury sounds bad. I did the same thing 15 years ago and my knee still isn't the same. I hope he can recover though, would be pity if we don't see him at the RWC next year

 

[Cardiffblue]

I ve watched the game God knows how many times now and conclude that Sean Edwards is a genius. South Africa continued to target dan biggar long after it was obvious that they were running into a brick wall. They went high and Wales took them. When they went wide the blitz got them. Wales knew exactly how they were going to play and in they drive Wales took the turnovers. It is a real shame that de villiers went off just when he did cos that was his moment and he was the one player that could've broken welsh hearts

 

[Gnostic]

We ll see. Of course you're bound to predict the death of gatlandball. In my view there's been very little wrong with Wales in past four years Apart from what's going on in players heads. Thanks to last night we've finally laid that to rest And we've found a working combo at half back.

V v little between top ranked teams apart from nz. Looking forward to next match against australia. Id actually prefer to lose like we did against nz with our forwards on parity for most of the game, rather than being monstered like australia vs orcland. Pre cement head We ve been where Australia are. It's not nice place to be. Can lead to massacres

I actually see Gatland as an unimaginative version of Deans. At least Deans half backed ideas had variation. Wales have played exactly the same game and almost been there for a long long time.

I am not predicting the death of anything, I just think its a pity that the systems and style of play is restrictive in what can be achieved by some extremely talented players. If your happy with it that fine, plenty were happy with Deans ideas at the RWC in 2011 which IMO wasn't far off the same play sheet.

 

[Cardiffblue]

I actually see Gatland as an unimaginative version of Deans. At least Deans half backed ideas had variation. Wales have played exactly the same game and almost been there for a long long time.

I am not predicting the death of anything, I just think its a pity that the systems and style of play is restrictive in what can be achieved by some extremely talented players. If your happy with it that fine, plenty were happy with Deans ideas at the RWC in 2011 which IMO wasn't far off the same play sheet.

Interesting. I think you are entirely correct to compare them. I do however see that gatland has a plan whereas I don't think australia ever got what Dean's was trying. It'll be interesting to see how we go against orcland and oireland now that we do have a halfback pair. Key is going to be getting 1/2p back into attacking line. I don't think its ch style that is holding him back. He's lost the knack of recognising when he's needed in attack

 

[Gnostic]

Interesting. I think you are entirely correct to compare them. I do however see that gatland has a plan whereas I don't think australia ever got what Dean's was trying. It'll be interesting to see how we go against orcland and oireland now that we do have a halfback pair. Key is going to be getting 1/2p back into attacking line. I don't think its ch style that is holding him back. He's lost the knack of recognising when he's needed in attack

Gatland is a far better selector than Deans ever was, that is the key difference in my mind. For instance at the 2011 RWC he wanted to play the field position game plan, which as much as I personally dislike it, can be very successful. Only problem was he picked a passing and running 10 (Cooper) and no reliable kicking options in the back three, where unlike now he actually had a very good option in Mark Gerrard.

I am not being critical of the players, here in my comments or being negative about their application etc. I am just saying that Wales performances under Gatland peaked about three years ago and it has been a case of maintaining that level ever since, nothing new has developed, indeed if it wasn't for Biggar and North being truly world class players I doubt they would have been able to maintain the performances. Do you really think they can reach any new heights with the current mode of play? I feel that victories over Australia this year really are not an indicator of where a side is as the Wallabies have been pretty poor is significant aspects of play, they are a team in flux. Likewise the Bok to some degree as they chop and change the side and rely on some serious veterans along with the ever present political meddling.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Gatland is a far better selector than Deans ever was, that is the key difference in my mind. For instance at the 2011 RWC he wanted to play the field position game plan, which as much as I personally dislike it, can be very successful. Only problem was he picked a passing and running 10 (Cooper) and no reliable kicking options in the back three, where unlike now he actually had a very good option in Mark Gerrard.

I am not being critical of the players, here in my comments or being negative about their application etc. I am just saying that Wales performances under Gatland peaked about three years ago and it has been a case of maintaining that level ever since, nothing new has developed, indeed if it wasn't for Biggar and North being truly world class players I doubt they would have been able to maintain the performances. Do you really think they can reach any new heights with the current mode of play? I feel that victories over Australia this year really are not an indicator of where a side is as the Wallabies have been pretty poor is significant aspects of play, they are a team in flux. Likewise the Bok to some degree as they chop and change the side and rely on some serious veterans along with the ever present political meddling.

the comparison is the best I've heard and set me thinking. I never got the hang of the Deans era for Australia but now can see them as v similar.

One thing for sure gatland's love for mike Philips and Rhys priestland has not helped. Half backs control games especially in last 10 mins and they ve blown so many. His failings are his failure to recognise form or talent that doesn't fit the physical model

I honestly think we can do it now. As long as someone wraps Rhys Webb in cotton wool for a couple of months. Ch is terrible for coming up with excuses but he knows that in run up to rwc he will have the players for an extended period. His plans rely on superior fitness. Ours went up over the autumn whereas South Africa's went down.

 

[Gnostic]

the comparison is the best I've heard and set me thinking. I never got the hang of the Deans era for Australia but now can see them as v similar.

One thing for sure gatland's love for mike Philips and Rhys priestland has not helped. Half backs control games especially in last 10 mins and they ve blown so many. His failings are his failure to recognise form or talent that doesn't fit the physical model

I honestly think we can do it now. As long as someone wraps Rhys Webb in cotton wool for a couple of months. Ch is terrible for coming up with excuses but he knows that in run up to rwc he will have the players for an extended period. His plans rely on superior fitness. Ours went up over the autumn whereas South Africa's went down.

The fitness equation is not as easy to get these days at test level. The margins are exceedingly fine. When considering this point with respect to the SA V Wales game you have to consider the Welsh are just bedding down the start of their season. The Saffas (non-euro based) have played the extended RC and Super Rugby plus all the EOYTs. So that the Super season plus 14 tests. It is no wonder that the fitness may have started to drop.

As for Phillips, I think he is there for the same reason Gregan was selected for so long past his actual form, defence. The Gatland model requires absolute rock solid defence and Phillips provides that 95% of the time. That is the only consideration, but it limits the other aspects of what Wales could do as per the rest of my arguments.

An interesting discussion, in any event Blue.

 

[Blue]

Again forgot the on button.

Big worry is 9. If Fourie du Preez doesn't recover and play next year we are no chance.

Our current crop of 9's look like a bunch of mugs with Ruan Pienaar the only decent stopgap.

It would help if everyone else just does their job.

The way we played looked way too much like the Shark's did this year. Dumb brainless whit and no mixing it up.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Again forgot the on button.

Big worry is 9. If Fourie du Preez doesn't recover and play next year we are no chance.

Our current crop of 9's look like a bunch of mugs with Ruan Pienaar the only decent stopgap.

It would help if everyone else just does their job.

The way we played looked way too much like the Shark's did this year. Dumb brainless whit and no mixing it up.

They looked exhausted at the end. Hope most can get a decent break. Those in the meat grinder of top14 unfortunately wont

 

[PaarlBok]

Wales desved this win and should have put more on the scoreboard. Bokke was kak as expected. This leave a bad taste specially for the Meyer lovers.

He spilled a perfect opertunity to bring new players through but totally missed the boat by his winning above all else approach. Now he has left us empty on experiense.

 

[the plastic paddy]

JdV's injury sounds bad. I did the same thing 15 years ago and my knee still isn't the same. I hope he can recover though, would be pity if we don't see him at the RWC next year

I will be astonished if he plays again, sadly.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

I will be astonished if he plays again, sadly.

My friend does physiotherapy and has a fairly high job in the NHS in England. He reckons that given the guys past knee injuries, the damage in the video he saw and his age that thats his career over. He says the ligaments won't be the same and the scar tissue that'll develop won't be anywhere near as good as it would've been pre injury. He had a lot of interesting stuff but I've forgotten now as it was two days ago. Funnily enough he predicted that it'd be between 8-12 months out, and close to 8 with top physio care. Its now been predicted 8 months out.

Hopefully he can come back, but he wasn't in the best of form now, and to come back after 8 months, only a matter of weeks away from a world cup, well, if he got selected I'm sure HM would be playing a highly risky move there. Such a shame I really like the guy.

 

[the plastic paddy]

He is pushing on age wise as well. Would love to be proved wrong but I thing that is it for JDV's playing career.

 

[PaarlBok]

He is pushing on age wise as well. Would love to be proved wrong but I thing that is it for JDV's playing career.

JdV overstayed his welcome, should move on.

 

[Mank]

So, what happened on this tour, SA posters? Are you still sticking to your theory that we are just complacent? Four games in a row now? I'm still saying the problems are a lot more fundamental than that.

We may have developed a more 'attacking' game but we are still very much a one dimensional side who don't play well outside of our comfort zone and are very easy to outsmart.

So what we have is a year out from the RWC:

Meyer doesn't know who his flyhalf is
We don't have a decent tighthead
We don't have a decent scrumhalf if FdP isn't playing
We just lost our captain and primary inside center, presumably for good
Willie le Roux is starting to look average

 

[PaarlBok]

We are in a badder state then the Wallabies. They at least started a new cycle with a new coach and younger players. We are nowhere. Meyer tried his best players, and they are clearly not good enough for the WC.

From your list at least we know Lambie dont cut test level.

We dont have a gameplan or we played such weak rugby that no gameplan will help us.

Still you get the Meyer supporters.

They only way forward is to cut out the old wood and start we young players. But we know Meyer wont do this, he should get him a technical coach to prepare for the rush defense.