Wales vs Springbokke

[PaarlBok]

and we werent complacent, we were outplayed by the Irish and Wales. We were lucky not by losing by more on the score sheet.

At the WC we'll be lucky to get to the semis with Meyer.

 

[the plastic paddy]

So, what happened on this tour, SA posters? Are you still sticking to your theory that we are just complacent? Four games in a row now? I'm still saying the problems are a lot more fundamental than that.

We may have developed a more 'attacking' game but we are still very much a one dimensional side who don't play well outside of our comfort zone and are very easy to outsmart.

So what we have is a year out from the RWC:

Meyer doesn't know who his flyhalf is
We don't have a decent tighthead
We don't have a decent scrumhalf if FdP isn't playing
We just lost our captain and primary inside center, presumably for good
Willie le Roux is starting to look average

You have a fucking decent tight head, problem is he is playing for Ulster and looking to qualify to play for Ireland. For the life of me I do not understand how anyone in SA allowed Wiehahn Herbst to leave. He is the best tight head I have seen this season. Could he have been told, like CJ Stander that he was too small?

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

You have a fucking decent tight head, problem is he is playing for Ulster and looking to qualify to play for Ireland. For the life of me I do not understand how anyone in SA allowed Wiehahn Herbst to leave. He is the best tight head I have seen this season. Could he have been told, like CJ Stander that he was too small?

Hell of a lot of young SA talent that has huge potential leave for some reason. I wonder if its due to the fact that SA seem to prefer to stick to the old tried and tested players rather than giving newer players a chance. Thinking of Ireland recently with Stander and Van Den Heever. Back in 2010 Bok fans raved about these guys as the next big things, then bam they were gone. Wonder if they thought with Habana and the back row depth that it was better off going abroad to try for another country?

 

[the plastic paddy]

Hell of a lot of young SA talent that has huge potential leave for some reason. I wonder if its due to the fact that SA seem to prefer to stick to the old tried and tested players rather than giving newer players a chance. Thinking of Ireland recently with Stander and Van Den Heever. Back in 2010 Bok fans raved about these guys as the next big things, then bam they were gone. Wonder if they thought with Habana and the back row depth that it was better off going abroad to try for another country?

CJ was actually told he was too small to ever make it as a Bok. That comes straight from his wife's Twitter feed so is a good source. Van Den Heever has taken a while learning how to catch and his defence wouldn't impress St Joe but he was the outstanding back in the Munster V Ulster game. Without wishing to get into a pejorative discussion, I suspect that quotas could well be behind VDH's emigration. Herbst, however, baffles me. SA's loss is certainly Ulster and Ireland's gain, he made an absolute mess of Ayerza in the Nigel's cup game against Leicester. If he was Irish Qualified I would bet serious money he would be one of St Joe's green monkeys already.

 

[PaarlBok]

Hell of a lot of young SA talent that has huge potential leave for some reason. I wonder if its due to the fact that SA seem to prefer to stick to the old tried and tested players rather than giving newer players a chance. Thinking of Ireland recently with Stander and Van Den Heever. Back in 2010 Bok fans raved about these guys as the next big things, then bam they were gone. Wonder if they thought with Habana and the back row depth that it was better off going abroad to try for another country?

This happen when your coach pick chicken runners for the Springboks. No reason to stay in SA.

 

[PaarlBok]

CJ was actually told he was too small to ever make it as a Bok. That comes straight from his wife's Twitter feed so is a good source. Van Den Heever has taken a while learning how to catch and his defence wouldn't impress St Joe but he was the outstanding back in the Munster V Ulster game. Without wishing to get into a pejorative discussion, I suspect that quotas could well be behind VDH's emigration. Herbst, however, baffles me. SA's loss is certainly Ulster and Ireland's gain, he made an absolute mess of Ayerza in the Nigel's cup game against Leicester. If he was Irish Qualified I would bet serious money he would be one of St Joe's green monkeys already.

Herbst left because the Sharks had Jannie Doep & poach Adriaanse.

 

[PaarlBok]

CJ was actually told he was too small to ever make it as a Bok. That comes straight from his wife's Twitter feed so is a good source.

Thats a REAL worry this. Meyer is actually as Blue as you could get at the Bulls. Telling one of his own stock he is to small. Vokket man, he IS a stupid coach.

 

[Mank]

Hell of a lot of young SA talent that has huge potential leave for some reason. I wonder if its due to the fact that SA seem to prefer to stick to the old tried and tested players rather than giving newer players a chance?

I doubt that is the main reason but it may be one of them.

Why am I, with a degree and 15 years of experience, living and working in the UK, contributing to the UK economy and tax receipts, instead of doing so back in SA? Many reasons.

OomPB can judge "chicken runners" all he wants but we all have to make decisions in our own interests.

 

[PaarlBok]

OomPB can judge "chicken runners" all he wants but we all have to make decisions in our own interests.

Dont get me wrong Boet. if my kids want to do the chicken run (my daughter want to do the TEFL thing in Korea) by all means, I'll bat them all the way. They dont get work in SA easily.

I am more about the Bok system giving Bok jerseys to overseas players. Its the system thats wrong.

 

[Blue]

Eben Etsebeth is going to Toulon to replace Bakkies.

Fuck fuckity fucken fuckfuck.

 

[PaarlBok]

Eben Etsebeth is going to Toulon to replace Bakkies.

Fuck fuckity fucken fuckfuck.

No surprise. I rest my case

 

[Blue]

No surprise. I rest my case

What case?

Money talks. Nothing Meyer, SARU or anyone can do about this.

The money they offer these guys is insane when translated to Rands. How can a guy like Eben say no to something that is probably 5 times more than the Stormers and SARU can offer?

SARU and Meyer have no choice but to keep picking overseas boks. More will leave. I fully expect an exodus of young players leaving over the next year and a full on avalanche after the world cup.

I get your argument that they should not pock these guys but they will have no choice now because the best are leaving.

There are rumblings about a couple of other young boks about so sign contracts overseas. I don't want to spread rumors but I have it on good authority.

SA rugby is fucked. It now depends how well they can manage the situation. They are not very good at this management thing.

 

[the plastic paddy]

What case?

Money talks. Nothing Meyer, SARU or anyone can do about this.

The money they offer these guys is insane when translated to Rands. How can a guy like Eben say no to something that is probably 5 times more than the Stormers and SARU can offer?

SARU and Meyer have no choice but to keep picking overseas boks. More will leave. I fully expect an exodus of young players leaving over the next year and a full on avalanche after the world cup.

I get your argument that they should not pock these guys but they will have no choice now because the best are leaving.

There are rumblings about a couple of other young boks about so sign contracts overseas. I don't want to spread rumors but I have it on good authority.

SA rugby is fucked. It now depends how well they can manage the situation. They are not very good at this management thing.

It is not just SA that is fucked, the international game as a whole is on the slippery slope to ruin. There is simply too much money in France and now the clubs have control through out the NH there is nothing the Unions can do about it. This is going to unravel spectacularly (badly) after the RWC.

 

[PaarlBok]

What case?

Money talks. Nothing Meyer, SARU or anyone can do about this.

There is actually.
1. Do the same as Australia & NZ and pick only players plying their trade in their rugby for the Wallabies/ All Blacks
2. Force him to obey his contract. Like WP will be doing.
Sport24

WP Rugby chief executive Rob Wagner, dismissed the reports, saying Etzebeth is contracted to the union until the end of the 2016 season.

 

[Mank]

There is actually.
1. Do the same as Australia & NZ and pick only players plying their trade in their rugby for the Wallabies/ All Blacks

You are just repeating what you want to happen but not addressing the complexities of it. NZ and OZ are very different environments to SA. They have relatively stable economies, stable and relatively strong currencies, low crime, low corruption, no quota system, no flaky management. Ok Oz also seems to have management problems from the top, but NZ rugby seems to be well managed.

The incentives for SA players to ply their trade overseas are far higher than for OZ/NZ players.

Blue is saying that if you implement your policy of only picking local players, you will gain a few players who are prepared to stay for loyalty reasons but you will lose more than you gain.

 

[the plastic paddy]

NZ will be fine because wearing the Black jersey is a complete national obsession which covers up a lot of financial short fall. Hayman would still be as good as any NZ tight head imho. But as we all know, union is in a less secure place in Aus in terms of priority for the public and finances.

 

[PaarlBok]

You are just repeating what you want to happen but not addressing the complexities of it. NZ and OZ are very different environments to SA. They have relatively stable economies, stable and relatively strong currencies, low crime, low corruption, no quota system, flaky management. Oz also seems to have management problems from the top, but NZ rugby seems to be well managed.

The incentives for SA players to ply their trade overseas are far higher than for OZ/NZ players.

Blue is saying that if you implement your policy of only picking local players, you will gain a few players who are prepared to stay for loyalty reasons but you will lose more than you gain.

Well at least its something to try and keep the local players in our rugby. You want your SA star players to play for SA teams in S15 at the very least. No problem if they play in Japan and be back for S15. Only pick the SA players. If they want to go North and chase money, good luck to them, no Bok jersey. We have more then enough young talent in SA to stay a force. At the moment Meyer pick old has beens that show they are not good anymore on test level. We are in a lot of trouble.

 

[PaarlBok]

NZ will be fine because wearing the Black jersey is a complete national obsession which covers up a lot of financial short fall. Hayman would still be as good as any NZ tight head imho. But as we all know, union is in a less secure place in Aus in terms of priority for the public and finances.

Well SA isnt far from them when it come to national pride for the Bok jersey. Meyer have kill the obsession by picking overseas players in fact it dont matter because the players dont worry, like Frans Steyn. He dont care about the Bok jersey. Meyer have cheapen the Bok jersey.

 

[PaarlBok]

Meyer qouted the SA rugby supportor think he is stupid, well he is damn right, he is vokken stupid.

 

[Mank]

Well SA isnt far from them when it come to national pride for the Bok jersey. Meyer have kill the obsession by picking overseas players in fact it dont matter because the players dont worry, like Frans Steyn. He dont care about the Bok jersey. Meyer have cheapen the Bok jersey.

No, Meyer has not had a continuous conveyor belt of players through the national side. I would say he has maintained pride in the jersey in this respect. Some people want every young upstart to be given a chance. I want a stable side.

You see picking foreign players as cheapening the jersey. I see picking any flash in the pan newcomer that comes along (in SA) as cheapening the jersey.

I'm not so sure we have "more than enough talent" to maintain the standards if we lose a bunch of players overseas. You can't replace experience. What if we pick the youngsters, then once experienced, they leave too? Do we just keep replacing them?