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VRU 2013

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pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
i think one of the drivers from the ARU's perspective is the already available infrasrtucture at the universities. fields, gyms, pools, rehab etc. the brumbies use anu, sydney unis facilities are apparently better than the waratahs, rugby in victoria needs a "home", etc. also the idea of alumni supporting Uni WA vs Melb Uni eg, has built in advantages, witness the strength in only 2 - 3 years of the sydney v melbourne boat race. the SA varsity comp is clearly one model being investigated. the academic requirements need careful planning.
the short answer is we need something. the ARC was great but just prohibitively expensive. we shall see what evolves

The Brumbies use University of Canberra, only displayed on their jersey but good to see the sponsirship is reaching far and wide.

this is definitely not a ploy by uni to garner all the good up and coming players. the rebels are determined to keep the homegrown talent here but need a comp that will develop them ready to step up to S15 level. local rugby here cant do that (yet) and the gap from SS, John I Dent and Premier rugby is too great.

And doesn't read that way at all........but might explain a few things in the recent ins and outs of the competition. Oooops i didn't say that did I?

It is no secret that MelbUni has a good set up but can't equate that to success (apart from the odd grade here and there). UQ and SydUni are top teams, but the UniNorths Owls and UniMelb are a long way off the playing field. Does it make sense to pump resources into Uni to develop players? Who knows? Is that going to be seen as giving one club a leg up? Or does it make sense to pump money across the board and give all clubs the opportunity to develop players?

Also heard a rumour that one of the "scholarship players" that MelbUni had attended Monash Uni......slip up or oversight, still funny if it is true.

On a serious note, the Government gave the Rebels $1m (which they matched) to pump into their gym and rehab centre at Princess Park. In my mind it makes sense to have the development players inviolved in this set up and interacting with professional players, coaches, managers as opposed to the set up at the club level.
 

pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
Melbourne Mana Vs Rebel Rising.

The Melbourne Mana team will take the field for the first time this Friday night. The team of local club players will take
on the challenge against the Rebel Rising in the curtain raiser before the Rabo Direct Rebels Vs. Reds.

The Mana team was born in 2009 originally as a merit team announced with players who competed in the now annual Pacific Cup Tournament at the end of the season.
This tournament has 180 of Melbourne’s best club players representing 6 nations being Australia, Cook Islands, Fiji, New Zealand, Samoa & Tonga.

The word MANA describes an unseen power that comes from deep within the soul. The word and its meanings are found in Micronesian, Melanesian and Polynesian culture. Can the Pride of the 6 nations take on the
challenge of the Rebel Rising? Find out at 5.05pm at AAMI park on Friday the 8th March 2013.

Melbourne Mana Team 2013
Coaches - Clifton Viliamu & Eric TomJunior
Manager – Ema Yandall
Physio – Bryan Robertson – Optimus Health

1 Alan Latu Power House
2 James Api Harlequins
3 Nathaniel Iona Moorabbin
4 Gab Navuni Power House
5 Filli Leota Moorabbin
6 OJ Noa Harlequins
7 Tovau Box Hill
8 Chris Aho Power House
9 Barry Te Hiko Southern Districts
10 Makesi Stowers Harlequins
11 Pate Ratabuli Southern Districts
12 Lloyd Johannson Box Hill
13 James Slattery Melbourne
14 Justin Marsters Harlequins
15 Brendan Todd Moorabbin
16 Kevin Palavi Melbourne University
17 Lemi Endeavour Hills
18 Soane Naufahu Footscray
19 Reggie Stowers Melbourne University
20 Nicola Whyndham City
21 Sione Taufa Harlequins
22 Adam Lewis Box Hill
23 Martin Naufahu Footscray
24 Jersh Witehira Melbourne
25 Fenika Amataga Endeavour Hills
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
Pablo:
"Also heard a rumour that one of the "scholarship players" that MelbUni had attended Monash Uni..slip up or oversight, still funny if it is true."

the Peter Hone scholarship is open to anyone in tertiary education, university, TAFE, etc. dont have to be at Melbourne, infact prior winners have been at RMIT, Swinburne and Monash. the Young Acheiver award is for schoolkids going onto uni.
 

pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
Pablo:
"Also heard a rumour that one of the "scholarship players" that MelbUni had attended Monash Uni..slip up or oversight, still funny if it is true."

the Peter Hone scholarship is open to anyone in tertiary education, university, TAFE, etc. dont have to be at Melbourne, infact prior winners have been at RMIT, Swinburne and Monash. the Young Acheiver award is for schoolkids going onto uni.

Brilliant, one Uni club gives you money while you study at a different institution...
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
not money

go onto the murfc website to have a look at the conditions. support for tuition, books etc. better than direct payment or arranging 457 visas to come and play, as some other melbourne clubs are doing.

80% of the kids that play rugby at year 12 in victoria stop after leaving school. many stop because of lack of interest but some cant afford to go to uni and continue to play because of afterhours and weekend work commitments to pay fees. so if a couple of better players can continue with both rugby and education i don't see that as a bad thing for victorian rugby.
 

pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
not money

go onto the murfc website to have a look at the conditions. support for tuition, books etc. better than direct payment or arranging 457 visas to come and play, as some other melbourne clubs are doing.

80% of the kids that play rugby at year 12 in victoria stop after leaving school. many stop because of lack of interest but some cant afford to go to uni and continue to play because of afterhours and weekend work commitments to pay fees. so if a couple of better players can continue with both rugby and education i don't see that as a bad thing for victorian rugby.

Over your head again....I'll stop now.

Who does that? And be careful where you point, remind me of the make up of your centenarary team that was brought in to win the comp...?
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Uni might offer "scholarships" for books, hex debt, etc. but all they do is write a check to a bloke who's proven he's signed up for full time tertiary education. This money can be allotted as the bloke see's fit and is more than likely spent on beer, beer, and more beer.

Melbourne Uni recently took the approach of paying many Colts players a small amount with the opinion that these players would stick around and play 1sts in a couple of years. The approach may work, but it hasn't yet and whilst one can brand these as scholarships it's a load crock.

On a different note, I have nothing wrong with a 3rd tier comp that empathises education and life outside rugby but if I ever see a national competition with a team called Melbourne University I will be livid, especially if that team is not made up solely of Melbourne University students like swingpass suggested is a possibility. If you want a national Uni competition it's not a chance for MUni to slap their brand on an all-stars taem.

However, if Melbourne University sponsored a independent 3rd tier team who used their facilities I'd be fine with that. Do you understand where I'm coming from?
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
On a different note, I have nothing wrong with a 3rd tier comp that empathises education and life outside rugby but if I ever see a national competition with a team called Melbourne University I will be livid, especially if that team is not made up solely of Melbourne University students like swingpass suggested is a possibility. If you want a national Uni competition it's not a chance for MUni to slap their brand on an all-stars taem.

However, if Melbourne University sponsored a independent 3rd tier team who used their facilities I'd be fine with that. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

I feel the need to qualify this whole bit because it sounds silly.

For example, if I said to the Canberra local who's the Uni rugby team then they'd say Uni-Norths despite the Brumbies being called the University of Canberra Brumbies and training at the Uni.

This is the different between being a team owned by a Uni and merely being sponsored by one. I have no problem with Melb Uni creating brand association with a rugby body but that's completely different to a team called Melbourne Uni featuring in Australia's proposed 3rd tier which is set to be a varsity competition.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
in case you missed it

RUGBY UNION
Players push ARU for answer to university question
RUGBY Union Players Association chief executive Greg Harris is seeking a response from the ARU about the proposal for a national universities competition.
Under the RUPA proposal, Australian premier clubs would align themselves with universities to create a development competition.
Harris said RUPA needed to know whether the ARU was serious about the idea before it could take it any further with the universities.
"The dialogue to date has been very constructive," Harris said. "We have had the opportunity to present this to the ARU board back in December.
"Further to that we've had on going discussions with (ARU chief executive) Bill Pulver.
"The issue now is what the plans are going to be for the future because a number of key stakeholders in the university sector have expressed an interest in this concept.
"We are probably getting to the stage where we need to provide them with some information about what the future direction will be as far as the proposal is concerned.
"I understand there might be other strategies in the short term and one couldn't dispute that he (Pulver) has some urgent issues to deal with, but as a longer-term strategy we think this has some real merit, but again it's up to his consideration."
While Pulver believes there is merit in the national universities competition proposal, he favours establishing a Super Rugby B championship to provide the so-called third tier in Australian rugby.
"I look forward to discussing this with Greg and we want to take the best elements out of the proposal," Pulver said.
"The cost of the model is important. We are cost-constrained at the moment and the model has got to be affordable.
"The Super B competition is the most affordable model and would have the least impact on premier club rugby."
Harris said a Super B competition could be a precursor to a national universities competition, which could not be established until 2015.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Mmm, I've said my piece on all of this.

Who's everybody got tipped to win the Dewar Shield this year? Quinnies have made some massive acquisitions (they'd have to be front runners), Melb are always up there (but I've heard rumours of money troubles, but it could be BS), Moorabin are probably getting an influx of attention thanks to their win last year, and Powerhouse are always a sleeping giant.

Thoughts?
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
sorrry wasn't trying to be a prat or troll, just thought it an interesting piece, given the prior conversations on this forum. as a last thought i think you will find if there is a uni based comp, the universities WILL have naming rights, irrespective of the make up of players.

it's almost always between the big 3, quins, melb and ph, but moorabin as defending champs must be in there, have footscray recruited well. bit early to tell without any preseason trials so far. ? know more after the 10's, but unlikely till first couple of rounds.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
sorrry wasn't trying to be a prat or troll, just thought it an interesting piece, given the prior conversations on this forum. as a last thought i think you will find if there is a uni based comp, the universities WILL have naming rights, irrespective of the make up of players.

it's almost always between the big 3, quins, melb and ph, but moorabin as defending champs must be in there, have footscray recruited well. bit early to tell without any preseason trials so far. ? know more after the 10's, but unlikely till first couple of rounds.

You're fine mate, I wasn't bemoaning the post/poster just the content. It's certainly on topic. My point is a University comp where Unis will have naming rights despite player make-up is not a Uni comp and thus a ridiculous concept.

Moorabin have great player retention and really do reap what they sow player-wise. I think winning the comp attracts the attention of those ex-NPC players who move to town time to time and will see them in good stead.

Footscray are doing well and creating a great culture. I admire their work but because it's not backed by a good geographical location or cashflow I think they're always on the edge of an implosion. Lets hope they don't though.

How are your boys at Uni going? Is this their year? They've certainly been investing in the young for a while.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
the club has reorganised the playing and nonplaying divisions so to speak.

from what i can tell they have recruited a couple of good coaches. i have no idea about player retention but from what i could see last wed night there were a number of the premiership colts in the room. apparently the team sent to the Laffan Cup, impressed, losing narrowly to Sydney Uni 1 and SU 2 but defeating Notre dame easily.

would assume they will do better this year, but how far they go, far too early to tell. my impression is that the longterm plan is to build from the base up ie get and retain colts and develop players rather than recruit older blokes
but i may be wrong. could see a dozen players from sydney and queensland unis on "scholarships" ;)
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
the club has reorganised the playing and nonplaying divisions so to speak.

from what i can tell they have recruited a couple of good coaches. i have no idea about player retention but from what i could see last wed night there were a number of the premiership colts in the room. apparently the team sent to the Laffan Cup, impressed, losing narrowly to Sydney Uni 1 and SU 2 but defeating Notre dame easily.

would assume they will do better this year, but how far they go, far too early to tell. my impression is that the longterm plan is to build from the base up ie get and retain colts and develop players rather than recruit older blokes
but i may be wrong. could see a dozen players from sydney and queensland unis on "scholarships" ;)

They've had that plan for a couple of years. I don't think any plan more than 2 seasons long is very realistic in an amateur league.

If I was Uni I'd be enticing American's/Canadians to do Uni exchanges and play for you guys. It wouldn't cost you a dime you'd just have to facilitate the pathway.

I wonder how Endeavour/Souths are doing, the trouble with those clubs is they're so far away. Melbourne/Quins can recruit a bloke from almost any corner of Melbourne whereas those clubs need to stick to players who are reasonably local.
 

pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
Mmm, I've said my piece on all of this.

Who's everybody got tipped to win the Dewar Shield this year? Quinnies have made some massive acquisitions (they'd have to be front runners), Melb are always up there (but I've heard rumours of money troubles, but it could be BS), Moorabin are probably getting an influx of attention thanks to their win last year, and Powerhouse are always a sleeping giant.

Thoughts?

Going to be interesting this year alright, take the 6 team finals format and replace it with 5 means that 1-2 decent teams will miss out. Melbourne and Quins have the stash to make it a 2 horse race, Uni won't be too far behind if they live up to the hype and House are always competitive, I just hope we don't start too late again and give up too many points to chase! Also, don't write off the Rams and Southern now that Ross is back at the club. Footscray will be strong, they play on loads of passion and have some very skilled players. BH (more so) and EH (building well and hopefully can string wins together) seem for mine to be making up the numbers.
 

elementfreak

Trevor Allan (34)
I think the ladder will resemble something like this:
1 Melbourne
2 Moorabbin
3 Footscray
4 House
5 Quins
6 Souths
789 Uni, BH, EH in some order

The 5 team finals means that definitely 1 good team will miss out, although we still have more than 50% of the competition making the finals series, which IMO seems excessive.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
I think the ladder will resemble something like this:
1 Melbourne
2 Moorabbin
3 Footscray
4 House
5 Quins
6 Souths
789 Uni, BH, EH in some order

The 5 team finals means that definitely 1 good team will miss out, although we still have more than 50% of the competition making the finals series, which IMO seems excessive.

Looks correctish though I'd put Footscray slightly lower and Quins slightly higher. Quins have plenty of good players from the world over signing up AND they (and PH to an extent) have picked-up the strongest of the Boorondara boys (who had a reasonable 1st grade).

Going to be interesting this year alright, take the 6 team finals format and replace it with 5 means that 1-2 decent teams will miss out. Melbourne and Quins have the stash to make it a 2 horse race, Uni won't be too far behind if they live up to the hype and House are always competitive, I just hope we don't start too late again and give up too many points to chase! Also, don't write off the Rams and Southern now that Ross is back at the club. Footscray will be strong, they play on loads of passion and have some very skilled players. BH (more so) and EH (building well and hopefully can string wins together) seem for mine to be making up the numbers.

I don't mind a 5 team finals, it looks silly but it really rewards 1st place which is important in amo sport.

Uni always have hype because they sign big names who can't necessarily back it up. For example, they signed former Wallaby Dave Fitter well after he'd blown up and they signed an ex-Wallaby as a coach who had little to no coaching experience. It'd be nice to see a new team in the mix though so good luck to them.

Who's Ross if you don't mind me asking? A Souths legend?

BH and EH do just make up numbers but they both finish seasons with 2 or 3 surprise wins so you can rationalise their spot in 1st grade. BH are a historical club and EH produce so many great juniors that I think I'd be a travesty if they got booted.
 

FiveStarStu

Bill McLean (32)
1 Melbourne
2/3 Moorabbin
3/2 Quins
4 Footscray
5 House
6 Souths
7 Uni
8 Endeavour
9 Box Hill

Only thing stopping me from locking in a Melb/Quins top two is Quins' inability to play out a consistent season. In 2011 they started well and finished poorly, in 2012 it was the opposite. The ones look the goods in pre-season but they need to do it for 15-odd rounds.

Box Hill needed that merger to go through to be competitive in 1st div, a lot earlier and a lot less shambolic too. As en_force_er points out, a lot of Kiwi's talent has moved to other clubs, and won't come back.
 

elementfreak

Trevor Allan (34)
Looks correctish though I'd put Footscray slightly lower and Quins slightly higher. Quins have plenty of good players from the world over signing up AND they (and PH to an extent) have picked-up the strongest of the Boorondara boys (who had a reasonable 1st grade).
Quins will start well and be in 2nd about 1/2 through the season and then will have a poor 2nd 1/2 of the year and fall away IMO.


I don't mind a 5 team finals, it looks silly but it really rewards 1st place which is important in amo sport.
Not the way it's being utilized.
FINALS - Five Team Playoffs (P1, P2 & P3) P4 TBC
Week 1 - 31 August Qualifying Finals
Team 1, 2 and 3 - Rest
Qualifier 1 - Team 4 v Team 5
Week 2 – 7 September Semi Finals
SF 1 - Team 1 v Winner QF
SF 2 - Team 2 v Team 3
Week 3 - 14 September Grand Final
GF - Winner SF1 v Winner SF2


Uni always have hype because they sign big names who can't necessarily back it up. For example, they signed former Wallaby Dave Fitter well after he'd blown up and they signed an ex-Wallaby as a coach who had little to no coaching experience. It'd be nice to see a new team in the mix though so good luck to them.
That ex-Wallaby who had no coaching experience is now a coach at the Rebels if I am right in who you are talking about.

Who's Ross if you don't mind me asking? A Souths legend?
He is the guy who got them to the final a few years ago, he has the respect of the players down there and they produce a decent style of rugby when he is in charge.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Box Hill needed that merger to go through to be competitive in 1st div, a lot earlier and a lot less shambolic too. As en_force_er points out, a lot of Kiwi's talent has moved to other clubs, and won't come back.

For what I've gathered with fresh perspective is a merger between BH and Boroondara was discussed at several meeting. People from Boroondara were optimistic and were thus spreading that the merger was a done deal, whereas those from BH saw no point to it. Why? BH stood nothing to gain even if the merger was finalised in November 2012.

Boroondara have a messy history of merger after merger, name changes etc. They have a messy junior program, and a pretty awful home ground. Most of their players/coaches live in Western Melbourne due to the Monash Freeway exit nearby. Thus, BH would gain little to no players/coaches and no helpful infrastructure.

However, I'm of the opinion that the VRU have to be careful about burning clubs because the reality is Boroondara does not exist anymore. They have no teams at any level (junior or senior) in 2013 and might never again. The VRU thought that by relegating Boroondara each Prems club would get 1 or 2 (on average) grade quality players and Boroondara would help round out 2nd Division and continue to field juniour sides. In reality, Boroondara has ceased to exist and now an entire part of Victorian rugby's infrastructure in gone.

If BH have a bad year in 2013 (and reports say they will) they will probably get relegated. Now, I can't see BH shutting up shop but I CAN see them becoming less relevent and never growing back to their former glory. Souths and Endeavour are a year to year prospect and their geographic isolation means they will inevitably have a bad year, will they get relegated then? Even Melbourne had a bad year in 06 or 07. Can you see us running a 6 or 7 team league? That'd be awful.

If the VRU hadn't relegated Boroondara they would still be fielding 3 premier teams (with a strong 1st grade) and a couple of junior sides in 2013, because they were relegated these teams no longer exist. This was nobody's intention but we have to be bloody careful, it's a slippery slope.

Not the way it's being utilized.
FINALS - Five Team Playoffs (P1, P2 & P3) P4 TBC
Week 1 - 31 August Qualifying Finals
Team 1, 2 and 3 - Rest
Qualifier 1 - Team 4 v Team 5
Week 2 – 7 September Semi Finals
SF 1 - Team 1 v Winner QF
SF 2 - Team 2 v Team 3
Week 3 - 14 September Grand Final
GF - Winner SF1 v Winner SF2

That's a bloody messy finals system. Why not:

Week 1- 1st place BYE, 2nd V 5th, 3rd V 4th.
Week 2- 1st V Lowest seeded winner, Highest seeded winner V Highest seeded loser.
Week 3- Winers of Week 2 play off.

That ex-Wallaby who had no coaching experience is now a coach at the Rebels if I am right in who you are talking about.

Nah, not him. It was 1 or 2 coaches after him.

This is all 2nd hand information but I was told he was a more random Wallaby with a couple of tests in the 80s. Uni were quite good when Matt Cobain was a coach/bench player.

He is the guy who got them to the final a few years ago, he has the respect of the players down there and they produce a decent style of rugby when he is in charge.

Do you think in Vic Rugby it's more about coaches or cattle?
 
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