Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

[Joe James]

Did you see last year's Super 20s final?
Thanks to the boffins at RA headquarters that's the last time any of us got to see a comparison and based on that game that seems about right.

Seriously, it’s not that hard to understand. There are only three boys left from that QLD team. That team is now too old. Hewitt, Mas Macnamara,Scott-Young, Mack Mason etc were the great players and are now 21.Are we assuming that if a state is strong one year, all the players leave then the incoming players are just as strong.
The QLD boys chosen in this years Australian 20s (except for 4boys)we have only seen compete at 2016 schoolboys. And they weren’t strong.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Seriously, it’s not that hard to understand. There are only three boys left from that QLD team. That team is now too old. Hewitt, Mas Macnamara,Scott-Young, Mack Mason etc were the great players and are now 21.Are we assuming that if a state is strong one year, all the players leave then the incoming players are just as strong.
The QLD boys chosen in this years Australian 20s (except for 4boys)we have only seen compete at 2016 schoolboys. And they weren’t strong.

There’s a perfectly good way to find out but the ARU dogged that.

 

[Rebel with a cause]

Only three of those boys played in the dominant Reds U20s side that won last year McDermott, Hoopert and Hockings.
The majority of those Qld selected did play in 2016 and although soundly beaten were selected for the National side???
Just as a final word on the disparity in selections (with real statistics) I thought it would be good to see where all the boys selected for our “Australian National” team came from.
Bearing in mind that five states play rugby union!!!!
So here is the breakdown
19 Queensland
Harry Hockings, QLD, lock Anglican Church Grammar School QLD
Matt Faessler, QLD, hooker Toowoomba Grammar School QLD
Harry Hoopert, QLD, prop Toowoomba Grammar School QLD
Efi Ma'afu, QLD, hooker Ipswich Grammar QLD
Tate McDermott, QLD, scrumhalf Toowoomba Grammar QLD
Angus Blyth, QLD, lock Southport School QLD
Justin Sikimeti , ACT, backrow St Patricks College QLD
Patrick Tafa, NSW, backrow Brisbane State High School QLD
Tom Kibble, QLD, backrow Brisbane Boys College QLD
Josh Nasser, QLD, prop St Josephs Gregory Terrace QLD
Fraser McReight, QLD, backrow Brisbane Grammar School QLD
Trevor Hosea, VIC, lock Brisbane Boys College QLD
Len Ikitau, ACT, centre Brisbane Boys College QLD
Lawson Creighton, QLD,fullback Padua College QLD
Tony Hunt, QLD, centre St Josephs College Nudgee QLD
Hayden Sargeant, QLD, wing Southport School QLD
Isaac Lucas, QLD, flyhalf St Josephs College Gregory Terrace
Jordan Petaia, QLD, centre Brisbane State High School QLD
Semisi Tupou, VIC, fullback St Josephs College Nudgee QLD

8 NSW
James Ramm, NSW, wing St Josephs College NSW
Harrison Goddard, VIC, scrumhalf Oakhill College NSW
Josh Kemeny, NSW, backrow Cranbrook NSW
Hugh Margin, NSW, lock Knox Grammar NSW
Esei Ha'angana, VIC, backrow Westfield Sports High NSW
George Francis, NSW, prop Westfield Sports High NSW
Bayley Kuenzle, NSW, flyhalf Newington College NSW
Sama Malolo, VIC, hooker Randwick Boys High School NSW

5 ACT
Charlie Hancock, NSW, prop Canberra Grammar ACT
Tom Ross, ACT, prop Daramalan College ACT
Mack Hansen, ACT, fullback Daramalan College ACT
Ryan Lonergan, ACT, scrumhalf Trinity Christian College ACT
Isiah Latu, ACT, centre Erindale College ACT


My point remains statistically valid
When these players have not competed against each other in a National competition since 2016 where NSW was 1st and 2nd and QLD was 5th and 6th how can there be such a disparity in the selections from each state.
Having selector and coach from one state is no way to pick a “National” team
And as and aside
How can two 18 year old’s be picked from Queensland over 20 year olds from around the country when they have never competed against them????

So what you are saying is this because Im just trying to get it clear because it seems absurd
1. QLD boys have been sent to other states so that they can be chosen in the Aus u20s team
2. Our National team is 60% QLD, 25%NSW and 15%ACT - NO VIC or WA
3.IN 2016 NSW I played NSW II in grand final and QLDI played QLDII for 5th and 6th and I ve looked at the team lists and these are the boys that are being chosen
4. QLD dominated the Aus schoolboys selections that year even though they weren't good,the Aus schoolboys then lost to both New Zealand sides 1s and 2s
5.Same selector that chose those boys is now the only selector appointed to choose the Australian National U 20s team
6 The coach and other person able to influence these selections is the Qld U20s coach
7.There has been no other competition games to choose these boys since 2016
8.Two boys from Queensland who were born in 2000 and are 18 years old have been chosen over all the great 20 year olds who were born in 1998 from other states and there has been no National trials to compare these boys
9 The Reds coach Thorn who was the Under 20s coach last year has been putting U20s boys into the Super Rugby Reds team above MEN such as Quade Cooper, Carmichael Hunt and premier rugby players. This makes them automatic selections for the U20s team
10. Reds are getting the results that you would expect from a team that is getting their selections way wrong
11.Rebels and Waratahs are the top two in the Australian conference and are obviously getting their selections right.

If Qld hijacks the National U20s for their own players then the future Wallaby team will all come from Qld. . How can that possibly benefit Australian rugby??
If this is the case the ARU needs to stand up for the players of the future from the other states so that we get a National team that can compete against the likes of NZ

 

[Braveheart81]

The conspiracy theory posts in schoolboys/under 20s threads are the best.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So what you are saying is this because Im just trying to get it clear because it seems absurd
1. QLD boys have been sent to other states so that they can be chosen in the Aus u20s team
2. Our National team is 60% QLD, 25%NSW and 15%ACT - NO VIC or WA
3.IN 2016 NSW I played NSW II in grand final and QLDI played QLDII for 5th and 6th and I ve looked at the team lists and these are the boys that are being chosen
4. QLD dominated the Aus schoolboys selections that year even though they weren't good,the Aus schoolboys then lost to both New Zealand sides 1s and 2s
5.Same selector that chose those boys is now the only selector appointed to choose the Australian National U 20s team
6 The coach and other person able to influence these selections is the Qld U20s coach
7.There has been no other competition games to choose these boys since 2016
8.Two boys from Queensland who were born in 2000 and are 18 years old have been chosen over all the great 20 year olds who were born in 1998 from other states and there has been no National trials to compare these boys
9 The Reds coach Thorn who was the Under 20s coach last year has been putting U20s boys into the Super Rugby Reds team above MEN such as Quade Cooper, Carmichael Hunt and premier rugby players. This makes them automatic selections for the U20s team
10. Reds are getting the results that you would expect from a team that is getting their selections way wrong
11.Rebels and Waratahs are the top two in the Australian conference and are obviously getting their selections right.

If Qld hijacks the National U20s for their own players then the future Wallaby team will all come from Qld. . How can that possibly benefit Australian rugby??
If this is the case the ARU needs to stand up for the players of the future from the other states so that we get a National team that can compete against the likes of NZ

By my count you hit 11 nails directly on the head

 

[The Honey Badger]

By my count you hit 11 nails directly on the head

I think dragging Quade and K Hunt into it might be drawing a long bow.

But I go along either the jist and some good points made.

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[Braveheart81]

Does anyone think the Reds players who have played Super Rugby this year (Hockings, McDermott, Petaia and hopefully Stewart) shouldn't be in this under 20 squad?

Does anyone think the Rebels player in a similar situation, Semisi Tupou shouldn't be in the squad?

 

[underratedNo.22]

Only three of those boys played in the dominant Reds U20s side that won last year McDermott, Hoopert and Hockings.
The majority of those Qld selected did play in 2016 and although soundly beaten were selected for the National side???
Just as a final word on the disparity in selections (with real statistics) I thought it would be good to see where all the boys selected for our “Australian National” team came from.
Bearing in mind that five states play rugby union!!!!
So here is the breakdown
19 Queensland
Harry Hockings, QLD, lock Anglican Church Grammar School QLD
Matt Faessler, QLD, hooker Toowoomba Grammar School QLD
Harry Hoopert, QLD, prop Toowoomba Grammar School QLD
Efi Ma'afu, QLD, hooker Ipswich Grammar QLD
Tate McDermott, QLD, scrumhalf Toowoomba Grammar QLD
Angus Blyth, QLD, lock Southport School QLD
Justin Sikimeti , ACT, backrow St Patricks College QLD
Patrick Tafa, NSW, backrow Brisbane State High School QLD
Tom Kibble, QLD, backrow Brisbane Boys College QLD
Josh Nasser, QLD, prop St Josephs Gregory Terrace QLD
Fraser McReight, QLD, backrow Brisbane Grammar School QLD
Trevor Hosea, VIC, lock Brisbane Boys College QLD
Len Ikitau, ACT, centre Brisbane Boys College QLD
Lawson Creighton, QLD,fullback Padua College QLD
Tony Hunt, QLD, centre St Josephs College Nudgee QLD
Hayden Sargeant, QLD, wing Southport School QLD
Isaac Lucas, QLD, flyhalf St Josephs College Gregory Terrace
Jordan Petaia, QLD, centre Brisbane State High School QLD
Semisi Tupou, VIC, fullback St Josephs College Nudgee QLD

8 NSW
James Ramm, NSW, wing St Josephs College NSW
Harrison Goddard, VIC, scrumhalf Oakhill College NSW
Josh Kemeny, NSW, backrow Cranbrook NSW
Hugh Margin, NSW, lock Knox Grammar NSW
Esei Ha'angana, VIC, backrow Westfield Sports High NSW
George Francis, NSW, prop Westfield Sports High NSW
Bayley Kuenzle, NSW, flyhalf Newington College NSW
Sama Malolo, VIC, hooker Randwick Boys High School NSW

5 ACT
Charlie Hancock, NSW, prop Canberra Grammar ACT
Tom Ross, ACT, prop Daramalan College ACT
Mack Hansen, ACT, fullback Daramalan College ACT
Ryan Lonergan, ACT, scrumhalf Trinity Christian College ACT
Isiah Latu, ACT, centre Erindale College ACT


My point remains statistically valid
When these players have not competed against each other in a National competition since 2016 where NSW was 1st and 2nd and QLD was 5th and 6th how can there be such a disparity in the selections from each state.
Having selector and coach from one state is no way to pick a “National” team
And as and aside
How can two 18 year old’s be picked from Queensland over 20 year olds from around the country when they have never competed against them????

Dear Mr Real Statistics,
I think you need to do some more thorough research before posting incorrect "real statistics" next time. I think you'll find a lot more of the QLD selections played in the 2017 undefeated reds u20 side than just the three players you mentioned.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Does anyone think the Reds players who have played Super Rugby this year (Hockings, McDermott, Petaia and hopefully Stewart) shouldn't be in this under 20 squad?

Does anyone think the Rebels player in a similar situation, Semisi Tupou shouldn't be in the squad?

Just want the best possible side selected from all available boys from all states. That should be the objective.

You have named the highest performers from QLD. I would expect those 5 to be pushing for selection. But there are 14 named.

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[Braveheart81]

Yes, but the previous post suggested that Thorn had selected under 20s players for Super Rugby who shouldn't be playing Super Rugby and by virtue of being Super Rugby players they were automatic selections in our under 20 squad.



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[Inside Shoulder]

Yes, but the previous post suggested that Thorn had selected under 20s players for Super Rugby who shouldn't be playing Super Rugby and by virtue of being Super Rugby players they were automatic selections in our under 20 squad.



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Its the lack of transparency - x gets picked because he’s on a training contract and y misses out because he’s not. But they play in different provinces.
Not every kid on a training contract is better than every kid who isn’t, particularly across different provinces, but how would anyone know when they don’t play each other.

 

[Getwithme]

Possible Lineup? Hopefully for the World Cup we would see Stewart at 10 and Valetini at 8
1. Ross
2. Malolo
3. Hoopert
4. Hockings
5. Blyth
6. Ha'anaga
7. McReight
8. Tafa
9. Goddard
10. Lucas
11. Tupou
12. Ikitau
13. Petaia
14. Ramm
15. Hansen

16. Efi Ma'afu
17. Nasser
18. Hancock
19. Margin
20. Sikimeti
21. Lonergan
22. Latu
23. Hansen

Let's get some positivity about this thread.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I wonder if the Reds will let Stewart go. Who is their next 10/15?
It really is a tournament geared to the northern hemisphere.
It should be played in the June test window.

 

[Silverado]

I wonder if the Reds will let Stewart go. Who is their next 10/15?
It really is a tournament geared to the northern hemisphere.
It should be played in the June test window.

Last year the JWC was played after Super Rugby and 7s season so Stewart and others joined the squad just before the tournament. I'm not sure if that's the case this year. At the time there was a lot of discussion about what that did for cohesion when the NH teams had been playing together in a 6 nations for months


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[The Honey Badger]

I count 7 players in that list that I have seen play. The rest I may of heard of or I don't know at all.

So very hard to agree or disagree.

Can someone tell me the form of McReight. Has he bulked up at all?

I saw him play schoolboys and he was very good, particularly over the ball. A very good pilferer. But lacked a bit in size.

So it will depend what the coach is looking for from the 7 and back row.

If they want to out muscle, then Kemmedy and Sigametti probably will start 6 & 7 and maybe Fraser comes on when the bodies start to tire. Obviously Valetini at 8 if he becomes fit and available. But there are plenty of options that will be effective including Margin and Haangana.

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[spud]

Possible Lineup? Hopefully for the World Cup we would see Stewart at 10 and Valetini at 8
1. Ross
2. Malolo
3. Hoopert
4. Hockings
5. Blyth
6. Ha'anaga
7. McReight
8. Tafa
9. Goddard
10. Lucas
11. Tupou
12. Ikitau
13. Petaia
14. Ramm
15. Hansen

16. Efi Ma'afu
17. Nasser
18. Hancock
19. Margin
20. Sikimeti
21. Lonergan
22. Latu
23. Hansen

Let's get some positivity about this thread.

No Mcdermott?

 

[The Honey Badger]

No Mcdermott?

Not enough QLD?

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[Getwithme]

Not enough QLD?

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cut the qld v everyone else bs. We pick the best team possible.

 

[The Honey Badger]

cut the qld v everyone else bs. We pick the best team possible.

Gets back to the assumption that a contracted player in 1 state is automatically better than 1 without a contract from another.

TBH, I haven't seen many of these boys play or seen very little of them. I wouldn't know who is best.

I do know there is a lot of competition for the scrum half position. I am surprised there is still 3 in the 32, I would have thought only 2. Selectors might be having trouble determining who is best. No scrum half's have been cut from the original 63 extended squad (at least to my figuring)

None of Gen blues were considered. Tyzac Jordan or Marco Bell, yet alone Will Haskins who was NSW 1 halfback in 2016. So lots of talent and competition for the No 9 position. Be interesting to see who is selected in the run on against NZ.



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[Inside Shoulder]

Gets back to the assumption that a contracted player in 1 state is automatically better than 1 without a contract from another.

TBH, I haven't seen many of these boys play or seen very little of them. I wouldn't know who is best.

I do know there is a lot of competition for the scrum half position. I am surprised there is still 3 in the 32, I would have thought only 2. Selectors might be having trouble determining who is best. No scrum half's have been cut from the original 63 extended squad (at least to my figuring)

None of Gen blues were considered. Tyzac Jordan or Marco Bell, yet alone Will Haskins who was NSW 1 halfback in 2016. So lots of talent and competition for the No 9 position. Be interesting to see who is selected in the run on against NZ.



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To my eye half is the position they fuck up.
For me Strang was a shoe in back whenever, not least because he was also a more than passable 10.
Never got a shot.
Phipps is proof that we do not understand 9s play.