Trial: Reds vs Chiefs - Sunshine Coast QLD

[Scoey]

After a good showing in Toowoomba on the weekend, the Reds travel to the Sunshine Coast to take on last years Champions, The Chiefs.

The last time these two teams met, it was a brute of a game with the Reds thumping the then red hot competition favourites at Fortress Suncorp.

The Reds will be missing Quade Cooper, but look to be bringing back some of the big names that were notably absent in Toowoomba. The likes of James Horwill, Saia Fainga'a, Rob Simmons, Jake Schatz and Dom Shipperley.

The Chiefs still have one more trial after this one before their season starts proper but for the Reds this will be their last hit out before taking on the Brumbies in Round 1 so this could be one very entertaining match.

Read more here -> www.redsrugby.com.au/News/NewsArticles/tabid/581/ArticleID/8314/Default.aspx

 

[Scoey]

Reading now that Ed O'Donohue & Horwill are likely starters along with Ben Daley and S.Finger. The talk is that A.Finger will likely miss one week and that Lance will also start at 10. Our starting XV could look something like:

1. Anae
2. Fainga'a
3. Daley
4. O'Donohue/AWH
5. Horwill
6. Quirk
7. Gill
8. Samo
9. Lucas
10. Lance
11. Ioane
12. Tapaui
13. Morahan??
14. Shipperley
15. Harris

16. Slipper
17. Holmes
18. Hansen
19. Schatz
20. O'Donohue/AWH
21. Browning/Ah Wong
22. Frisby
23. Toua

*Disclaimer - I know less than nothing about the positions 1 & 3 so have likely got two THP's or two LHP's there. If I have by some miracle picked one of each I probably have them in the wrong number jersey. Just sayin.

I'd say they will carry a much bigger bench as they did in Toowoomba but you would think they will be trying to get as close to the First XV starting as they can since this is the last hit out.

 

[RugbyReg]

St.George Queensland Reds Trial Team v Chiefs on the Sunshine Coast

1. Greg Holmes

2. Saia Fainga'a

3. James Slipper

4. James Horwill (c)

5. Rob Simmons

6. Eddie Quirk

7. Liam Gill

8. Jake Schatz

9. Ben Lucas

10. Jono Lance

11. Digby Ioane

12. Mike Harris

13. Ben Tapuai

14. Rod Davies

15. Luke Morahan



Reserves

Albert Anae, James Hanson, Jono Owen, Ed O'Donaghue, Adam Wallace-Harrison, Nigel Ah Wong, Curtis Browning, Jarrad Butler, Nick Frisby, Dion Taumata, Chris F'Sautia, Aidan Toua, Dom Shipperley
[/QUOTE]

http://www.redsrugby.com.au/News/NewsArticles/tabid/581/ArticleID/8326/Default.aspx

 

[Scoey]

Solid team! I would've thought that 12. Taps, 13. Morahan and 15. Harris would've made more sense though but I guess that's why I'm not the Director of anything, let alone Coaching. Lol!

 

[tigerland12]

That would be close to our strongest team wouldn't it? Bring in Cooper,Fainga'a and Shipperely for Lance, Davies & Morahan and that would be it right now. Possibly Hanson for Fainga'a.

Also, I always thought Horwill played on the tighthead side (no.5)?

 

[Scoey]

That would be close to our strongest team wouldn't it? Bring in Cooper,Fainga'a and Shipperely for Lance, Davies & Morahan and that would be it right now. Possibly Hanson for Fainga'a.

Also, I always thought Horwill played on the tighthead side (no.5)?

I agree TL. Pretty close to the mark. And yep, Horwill plays 5, Simmons plays 4. Glad to see I'm not the only one that gets the numbers mixed up, the QRU do also!

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Perhaps they are trialing Simmons at TH in case the need for AWH to come on ever arises?

The forward pack is solid but really seems to be missing the zing of previous years with no samo or higginbotham.......and this forward pack also raises the question of what is to happen come line out time as i see no real key jumpers.

 

[Scott Allen]

That would be close to our strongest team wouldn't it? Bring in Cooper,Fainga'a and Shipperely for Lance, Davies & Morahan and that would be it right now. Possibly Hanson for Fainga'a.

Also, I always thought Horwill played on the tighthead side (no.5)?

That's not our best forward pack - Samo was dominant last week - I think you'll find Samo is a definite starter at #8.

Shatz and Quirk are probably the leading contenders to fight it out for #6 but Quirk was very quiet last week so will need to step up.

 

[Scott Allen]

Perhaps they are trialing Simmons at TH in case the need for AWH to come on ever arises?

The forward pack is solid but really seems to be missing the zing of previous years with no samo or higginbotham...and this forward pack also raises the question of what is to happen come line out time as i see no real key jumpers.

TD - Simmons is a key jumper (as is AWH if he wins the spot over Simmons) and I reckon Samo will be at #8 who is also a key jumper.

Horwill makes up the three good jumpers required.

Gill has also come along in the lineout and can provide the fourth jumping option leaving Shatz/Quirk on the ground (either of whom are a fifth jumping option).

 

[tigerland12]

Quirk has been a dominant jumper at Premier Rugby level for a few years now. I know there is a massive step up, but he definatly is not slouch in the air. He will be used as the third jumper whenever he is on the field.

I still have my concerns over Shatz as a jumper. He just doesn't seem quick enough or agile enough in the air.

And Scott I think you're probably right about Samo, by all reports he was devastating on the weekend. I imagine he will join Shatz and Gill in the backrow, with Quirk covering 6,7,8 on the bench.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I think quirk will be lucky to have his contract renewed next time around.

I am not sayign he isnt up to super 15 but he isnt offering anything that isn't easily found in other players and ah wong and brownning by all reports are shaping up as rampant ball runnners which is what we will need more when samo hangs up the boots than a run of the mill kind of backrower who is servicable accorss all positions. As realistically they could pick up another rookie to do that for much cheaper

 

[tigerland12]

I think quirk will be lucky to have his contract renewed next time around.

I am not sayign he isnt up to super 15 but he isnt offering anything that isn't easily found in other players and ah wong and brownning by all reports are shaping up as rampant ball runnners which is what we will need more when samo hangs up the boots than a run of the mill kind of backrower who is servicable accorss all positions. As realistically they could pick up another rookie to do that for much cheaper

Lucky to have his contract renewed? Really? You're saying this based on.....?
You said that you still think he's up to Super 15 level, so why would you make a judgement that Ah Wong and Browning, who have played one TRIAL GAME are more deserving of a contract?

Sorry but I find that statement to be a bit ridiculous at this point in time.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Lucky to have his contract renewed? Really? You're saying this based on...?
You said that you still think he's up to Super 15 level, so why would you make a judgement that Ah Wong and Browning, who have played one TRIAL GAME are more deserving of a contract?

Sorry but I find that statement to be a bit ridiculous at this point in time.

Think about it without being all defensive for your fellow tigerman.
When I say he an cut it i mean yeah he is serviceable he can make some tackle get a yard or two but he is dispensable. Similar to Poutasi Luafutu he could fill the gap but that is all he was and so is quirk. The reds didn't release tasi because he wasn't any good or he couldn't cut it, the fact of the matter is they could get a 20 year old (who in tasi's case probably was quirk) to fill a similar role for a much smaller wage.

So think about it quirk would be on a rookie contract, and for arguments sake lets say he earns $60,000 now at the end of the two years his contract is up and negotiations begin. Now like a lot of contract based jobs i would assume the option to resign quirk if the reds choose would entail a mandatory top up of $20,000 minimum. In salary cap based competition $20,00 that $20,000 would probably be more worthwhile invested on a definite starter than your gap filling squad player.

So naturally financially it makes more sense to move said squad player on and upgrade the current EPS player in there position if they are good enough.
And regardless of perhaps Browning and Ah Wong's 1 trial game expeirience they have both been earmarked as future super 15 level players especially browning who will have by this time jumped through all the representative hoops quirk had to........ so realistically it isn't that ridiculous.

 

[Braveheart81]

I disagree with you too thierry dusautoir. At age 21, surely the Reds would be thinking that the guy has plenty of improvement left in him and certainly wouldn't be costing a large amount of money.

If a genuine superstar comes through the ranks then sure, it might be worth sacrificing someone like Quirk to secure them, but what's the point of getting rid of a 22 year old to sign a 20 year old who is a year or two behind in their development than the player you've just got rid of.

Surely the nominal increase in their contract is a reflection of them gaining experience and skill by being part of your team for longer.

Ditching someone like Quirk just to save $20k (or some similar sort of number) seems like a crazy idea. Other teams would jump at the chance to pick up a player like him for the dollars relatively cheap dollars he'd demand knowing that he already has Super Rugby experience and is reasonably talented.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Ditching someone like Quirk just to save $20k (or some similar sort of number) seems like a crazy idea. Other teams would jump at the chance to pick up a player like him for the dollars relatively cheap dollars he'd demand knowing that he already has Super Rugby experience and is reasonably talented.

Maybe you right but lets be honest what other teams?

The force? definitely not. Waratahs? highly unlikely considering the backrow talent they have comign through. Rebels? maybe but they are already on struggle street to cater their current backrow stocks.

Which leaves the brumbies which is possible considering aulua and mowen ar eno spring chickens but i would still rate Ita Vaea, Fardy and probably colby ahead of him.

But your argument also reinforces what i have said as well. Because all it takes is Ah Wong and Browning to have another good super XV season and another club could snap them up and at QLD would miss out......

Lastly what i am saying isn't somethign thats come out of the blue as i have stated in previous threads link has moved to bring in other backrow talent

 

[tigerland12]

But your argument also reinforces what i have said as well. Because all it takes is Ah Wong and Browning to have another good super XV season and another club could snap them up and at QLD would miss out..

Lastly what i am saying isn't somethign thats come out of the blue as i have stated in previous threads link has moved to bring in other backrow talent

I still don't understand where you are making this judgement from? Quirk has only played a handful of games for QLD, he has been injured. So I don't know how you can make that judgement considering you've only seen a handful of games from him at that level.

Whilst you are talking up Ah Wong and Browning, which, don't get me wrong are increadibly talented, but have never played a Super Rugby game. They both weren't even given spots in the contracted squad of 35 untill Faulkner and Robinson (injury) pulled out.

If you were making this statement at the end of the season, when Quirk maybe didn't perform and the other two did, then fine you're entitled to make that judgement.

But right now, it seems like you are making a very blind statement in regards to all three players. None of them have had enough time (or any at all) at Super Rugby level to prove themselves.

Wait 8 Months then make your judgement.

 

[No4918]

Higgers is 26, Quirk 21. Look back 5 years and they seem to be in pretty similar places. Not many rated Higgers then either. I have not seen a lot of Quirk so really look forward to him having a good extended chance in the side this year.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I still don't understand where you are making this judgement from? Quirk has only played a handful of games for QLD, he has been injured. So I don't know how you can make that judgement considering you've only seen a handful of games from him at that level.

Whilst you are talking up Ah Wong and Browning, which, don't get me wrong are increadibly talented, but have never played a Super Rugby game. They both weren't even given spots in the contracted squad of 35 untill Faulkner and Robinson (injury) pulled out.

If you were making this statement at the end of the season, when Quirk maybe didn't perform and the other two did, then fine you're entitled to make that judgement.

But right now, it seems like you are making a very blind statement in regards to all three players. None of them have had enough time (or any at all) at Super Rugby level to prove themselves.

Wait 8 Months then make your judgement.

My bad i meant premier grade.

Its not a blind statement, even at premier level i would suggest ah wong and browning have dominated more than quirk did during his time there.

Quirk debuted alot earlier than higgin botham but by two years in to his career and a similar amount of caps higginbotham had started enforce himself more on the game by the two year mark.

Schatz has solidified his position as starter by two years into his reds run.

Quirk hasn't.......its not an attack on his ability but realistic view that he offers nothign that the reds don't already have in spades which is a player who can take the field and produce an acceptable output. He is not an outstanding pilferer of the ball ala gill, nor is he a devastating runner ala Samo and Higginbotham and nor is he an outstanding workhorse who does more than his share of work ala robinson and schatz.

Now if the reds are happy to have a player who can be ther eto come on for 20 minutes a hit some rucks make a few tackles and have a run, then fine keep quirk.

But if they want a player who could possibly be a devastating runner, mechanical heart workhorse or excellent pilferer its time to move on.

lastly at junior level quirk's main facet of his game was to domiante his foes through physicality and aggression and he has professed this himself. But at Super XV level alot of players are big and alot of players are agro so quirk's own touted edge is rendered useless.

but fine lets give it a year and we can say i am right in september

 

[tranquility]

Quirk will be better 6 than Higgers, and thankfully he will do doing it at the Reds. He is also a through and through 'Reds' player, and I very much doubt he will leave or be forced out of the squad at any point. He just needs a consistent run in the team.

Also I will tell you what he offers, that almost no other backrowers in Australia offer. Genuine, effectively placed aggression. This is not to say that he is a raving lunatic, but his natural temperament on a rugby pitch is aggressive - but unlike higgers and others he has played rugby his whole life and understands how to use it effectively. When he does get a run at 6, place particular attention to the work that he does at counter-rucking and disrupting opposition ball. I would much prefer a non-nonsense 6, that plays tight and genuinely understand his role than "rampant ball runners" as you put it.

but fine lets give it a year and we can say i am right in september

This statement here drips like paint off the ceiling. Drip, drip, drip.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I would much prefer a non-nonsense 6, that plays tight and genuinely understand his role than "rampant ball runners" as you put it..

That statement just shows you missed the point of that discription

This statement here drips like paint off the ceiling. Drip, drip, drip.

Don't be like that baby i can change?