Tri Nations squad named - NAMED ON PAGE 3 - GENIA IN!!!

[Moses]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Just putting together a list of longshots for a front page poll, any more suggestions?

Tri-Nations LongShot

Tri-Nations LongShot

Sekope Kepu
AJ Whalley
Dan Palmer
Adam Freier
Matt Dunning
Pek Cowan
Daniel Fitzpatrick
Will Caldwell
Ben Mowen
Scott Higginbotham
Mitchell Chapman
Matt Hodgson
Will Genia
Leroy Houston
Richard Kingi
Patrick Phibbs
Kurtley Beale
Daniel Halangahu
Christian Lealiifano
Sam Norton-Knight
Timana Tahu
Rob Horne
Francis Fainifo
Lote Tuqiri
Nick Cummins
Scott Staniforth
Mark Gerrard
Cameron Shepherd
Mark McLinden

 

[formeropenside]

Re: Tri Nations squad

I can't see why you'd blood someone now in the 3N rather than in the softer tests before that. I suppose the only exception might be an U20 player, and probably Kingi is the most likely bet there.

A few of those names might get a run on the EOYT however.

 

[Newb]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Tom Carter ;D

 

[Moses]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Robbie always has at least one roughie, likes to keep us guessing

 

[Scotty]

Re: Tri Nations squad

I would have thought Horne has a better chance than Kingi, who needs a lot of improvement on decision making.

 

[disco]

Re: Tri Nations squad

I think Will Genia might get a look in & maybe a genuine blindside flanker not a Lock/flanker.

With the lack of gametime Valentine got in the inbound tests I think Deans must be keen to give Will Genia a run.

 

[Groucho]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Beale should be the bolter IMO, a wayward talent in need of some proper development, having real utility value and game-breaking ability off the bench. I think Deans' less structured defensive patterns will suit him as well.

 

[RugbyReg]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Genia has gone for the season hasn't he? Haven't seen him in club land.

 

[Lee Grant]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Talking about some of the guys who have been mentioned:

Genia - I remember that he had finger surgery that was serious and would be out until the end of the season. Firecracker Valentine will keep his place.

Horne - has had a couple of hamstring problems now. He had a long layoff between his S14 hammy problem and the start of the U/20 tournament and it obviously wasn't right before he got the recurrence of it and paid the price. He is EOYT material.

Beale - also got a hammy injury in Japan and was supposed to be out for 6 weeks then; so he's 3 weeks away from training. Would like to see him picked for the EOYT just to get exposure to the Wallabies set up.

Kingi - forget him - he's a Sevens animal with a lot of potential but needs to makes a whole lot of mistakes in the S14 and fix them, before he is considered.

Kepu would be a chance on ability but Cowan and Alexander can both back up Fat Cat at LHP; so Kepu would be a doubtful pick unless Cat is injured. Is being played by Randwick at LHP only.


The roughies I would choose are:

Shepherdson to replace Cowan - but it is an old song I sing.

Mowen to replace Hodgson - as I wrote elsewhere: Mowen was third highest lineout winner in the S14 and took as many for the Tahs as Caldwell and Mumm combined. Also: he had more lineout steals than anybody else in the S14. [On the other hand I saw him play at Coogee Oval for Randwick against the Rats last Saturday and he didn't look like a test player - though one unremarkable game is neither here nor there.]


Note that Palu played for a full 80 minutes for Manly against Penrith on Saturday and came through OK, although he said his legs were like jelly at the end. He should come into the squad, but play in the next two club rounds for Manly.

 

[fatprop]

Re: Tri Nations squad

I expect the squad will be

Forwards:
Ben Alexander,
Al Baxter,
Pekahou Cowan Dunning (do you really want Alexander or Cowan to pack against the Beast?)
Benn Robinson

Tatafu Polota-Nau
Stephen Moore

James Horwill,
Dean Mumm,
Nathan Sharpe
Peter Kimlin

Richard Brown,
Palu
Matt Hodgson Elsom or Mowan or Chapman (we need that third lineout option)
David Pocock,
George Smith,
Phil Waugh.


Backs:
Luke Burgess,
Josh Valentine ,
Quade Cooper
Matt Giteau

Berrick Barnes
Ryan Cross,
Stirling Mortlock
Timana Tahu

Peter Hynes,
Drew Mitchell,
Lote Tuqiri
Lachie Turner

James O'Connor
Adam Ashley-Cooper

That is 30, but to me, we are short of a hooker, a 9 and a real lock (when is Chisolm back?). We could do without Waugh for another hooker and Lote for another 9 but I don't think we have anyone decent enough and healthy to come in.

 

[Scotty]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Good point on being short of a real lock, fp. In recent seasons both Mumm and MMM have proven that there is a big difference between 4/5 and 6. Just because you are tall and fast doesn't mean you can effectively cover for both positions (at least against better opposition).

I think Deans needs to decide if he wants him as the third lock (behind Sharpe and Horwill) or second blindside (behind Elsom), and play him as such (obviously if he is coming off the bench he will still need to cover both). I would like to see him stay at 6 while Elsom is out, as we know he can play there, he just needs to regain his form.

I also think that Palu should come back off the bench as an impact player. When he comes on either Mumm can play the game out at 6 or Brown can move there.

 

[fatprop]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Scotty

I think Mumm is now an "athletic lock", not a 4/6 , but we lack a grunter/worker (a "Vickerman/Horwill"). Chisholm did well on the November tour and Caldwell hasn't been sighted I think since the S14.

 

[farva]

Re: Tri Nations squad

I dont see Mowen getting picked. Sure he impressed during the S14, but if we picked him now, he would need to blood himself against either the Springbok or All Blacks and I dont see that happening. There was an opportunity to blood him against Italy where he could be covered if he didnt succeed at that level, but there is no hiding in a 3N match. He might be a next year player I think.

 

[Newb]

Re: Tri Nations squad

I expect the squad will be

Forwards:
Ben Alexander,
Al Baxter,
Pekahou Cowan Dunning (do you really want Alexander or Cowan to pack against the Beast?)
Benn Robinson

Tatafu Polota-Nau
Stephen Moore

James Horwill,
Dean Mumm,
Nathan Sharpe
Peter Kimlin

Richard Brown,
Palu
Matt Hodgson Elsom or Mowan or Chapman (we need that third lineout option)
David Pocock,
George Smith,
Phil Waugh.


Backs:
Luke Burgess,
Josh Valentine ,
Quade Cooper
Matt Giteau

Berrick Barnes
Ryan Cross,
Stirling Mortlock
Timana Tahu

Peter Hynes,
Drew Mitchell,
Lote Tuqiri
Lachie Turner

James O'Connor
Adam Ashley-Cooper

That is 30, but to me, we are short of a hooker, a 9 and a real lock (when is Chisolm back?). We could do without Waugh for another hooker and Lote for another 9 but I don't think we have anyone decent enough and healthy to come in.

fp, i like the looks of this squad for the most part. good quality men up front to make a good group of 15 and even 22 but after that there are some problems, as you mentioned.

too many empty jerseys it seems. blokes that are in the team, but seems no one wants to use them for 3N. i'd put kimlin, valentine, cooper, tahu, cross, and tuqiri in that list. either aren't trusted enough or haven't shown the form needed for a slug-fest. but it seems there isn't anyone putting their hand up to replace them.

mowen/caldwell/chapman all sort of fringe players that haven't gotten a good run with the wobbs to show that they can do it, and newer guys coming back from injury are in the same boat -- genia, horne, beale.

elsom/palu back will help a lot cuz it will put the blokes on the bench that should be there -- mumm, brown, pocock.

hardman/freier as a hooker option? not ideal, but someone has to be the backup to TPN. slim pickings. same goes for 9/10/12/13. if either the starter or the backup goes down, you're looking at a bit of a hole.

 

[cyclopath]

Re: Tri Nations squad

hardman/freier as a hooker option? not ideal, but someone has to be the backup to TPN. slim pickings. same goes for 9/10/12/13. if either the starter or the backup goes down, you're looking at a bit of a hole.

Disagree to a point.
Look at 13 for example. Mortlock, Cross (OK, not Morty, but has generally acquitted himself well), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and then fringe possibilities like Tahu. And Ioane to come back into the mix at some point.
12 - Barnes, can play Morty there if needs be, so too AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) who has done OK and others like Beale or Cooper have shown some promise and will develop. Tyrone Smith too would acquit himself quite well if needs be.
9 - after Burgo and Valentine (not convinced so much on him yet) there is Lucas, Sheehan (who has played internationals)
10 - still a problem

Ask a Kiwi how their depth is at these positions, or any team for that matter. I think we are no worse off than most others, and in 13 at least better off.

 

[Newb]

Re: Tri Nations squad

hardman/freier as a hooker option? not ideal, but someone has to be the backup to TPN. slim pickings. same goes for 9/10/12/13. if either the starter or the backup goes down, you're looking at a bit of a hole.

Disagree to a point.
Look at 13 for example. Mortlock, Cross (OK, not Morty, but has generally acquitted himself well), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and then fringe possibilities like Tahu. And Ioane to come back into the mix at some point.
12 - Barnes, can play Morty there if needs be, so too AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) who has done OK and others like Beale or Cooper have shown some promise and will develop. Tyrone Smith too would acquit himself quite well if needs be.
9 - after Burgo and Valentine (not convinced so much on him yet) there is Lucas, Sheehan (who has played internationals)
10 - still a problem

Ask a Kiwi how their depth is at these positions, or any team for that matter. I think we are no worse off than most others, and in 13 at least better off.

you're right that we're better off than the Kiwis. and i agree that you can fill the holes as you mention. i'm more thinking that the solutions you mention require some reordering because of a lack of immediate replacements. in the backline in particular. if you shift AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to either center position (where he is quite capable) then who plays fullback? is J'OC ready to start in 3N? maybe Turner? but then you need a new winger. cue Lote...??

but to have that much depth might be wishful thinking. hard to have international quality players 3 deep at every position. just doesn't seem to happen because of either injuries or just lack of talent. my views might also stem from the fact that i don't rate Cross too highly and that i don't think Tahu or TSmith have shown enough growth/improvement to handle a 3N game. especially since they weren't involved in the Italy/France tests.

 

[louie]

Re: Tri Nations squad

10 is a worry for me.
not only because he don't have a replacement for gits but also that dean doesn't seem to trying be trying to bring someone in.
barnes is ok at ten but is really becoming a 12, beale is a 12.
maybe Christian Lealiifano or Matt To'omua. i'm not saying play them but have them in the squad incase the worse happens.
we don't want another 07 cup on our hands.

 

[disco]

Re: Tri Nations squad

Genia has gone for the season hasn't he? Haven't seen him in club land.

No he was out for 3months with finger surgery, surely that is almost up considering he missed the last 3 weeks of the regular super 14 season plus the two weeks of finals & now we've just finished our 4 inbound games.

So by the time the tri-nations squad get's together in a weeks time he may be ready to play.

 

[Scotty]

Re: Tri Nations squad

I think Deans has tried with bringing Cooper into the squad and giving him some game time. I suspect that he is thirdy choice 10 behind Gits and Barnes, while the line up for 12 goes Barnes, Mortlock, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), O'Connor. You can see how short we are in those positions when the first and sometimes second back ups are already on the field!

If Gits is injured we will probably see Barnes, Mortlock, Cross although I'd prefer to see Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mortlock. I think there is a snowflakes chance of Tahu starting a 3N game at 12.

 

[Scotty]

Re: Tri Nations squad

No he was out for 3months with finger surgery, surely that is almost up considering he missed the last 3 weeks of the regular super 14 season plus the two weeks of finals & now we've just finished our 4 inbound games.

So by the time the tri-nations squad get's together in a weeks time he may be ready to play.

It is surely worth bringing him in as a 3rd halfback, and cutting the likes of Tahu.