Tri Nations Game 5 - Springboks vs All Blacks

[MajorlyRagerly]

Anyway, didn't see the game but sounds like it panned out exactly as expected (for me anyway). Boks won playing WC rugby, we got owned in the forwards, Woodcock is still a penalty magnet & Thompson/Messam showed themselves to not be threatening the number 1's.

Well done to the boks - beating SA in SA is always one of the hardest challenges in global rugby & if you don't play your best team, you don't have a hope in hell.

AGree with GH about the whole forward pass thing - if it's the correct decison then who cares how it came about. Can't blame some people for being pissed off but at the end of the day, the correct decison was made.

Yeah, I totally deserved to be called a typical whingining / wining spoineless vokket kiwi or whatever after this post I made about the match.

Anyway, yes will move on.

 

[Blob]

In sum then breaches of protocol should be allowed if they turn out to be right but should not be allowed if they turn out to be wrong. That's a strong principle right there.

 

[Thomond78]

In sum then breaches of protocol should be allowed if they turn out to be right but should not be allowed if they turn out to be wrong. That's a strong principle right there.

Refs are told all the time to ignore breaches of the Laws if it doesn't have a material effect. It's hard to see why a protocol should have a higher status than the Laws of the game.

 

[PaarlBok]

The TMO broke the protocol, but once informed, it would have been wrong for Clancy to do anything else than he did. If it's good enough for Grim 'Enry, then it's really done and dusted.

Dont like the Kiwis beating down our x Huis Marais hooker
http://www.sareferees.co.za/features/qanda/1567214.htm

Shaun Veldsman of Robertson in the Western Cape and Johann Meuwesen of Port Elizabeth in the Eastern Cape, both Test referees in their time, are now television match officials - TMOs. They are both on the International Rugby Board's panel of specialised TMOs and do top matches in many places, an interesting job as the only times they are called in are when decisions are difficult.

In this Q&A, Shaun asks Johann questions.

Shaun Veldsman: When did you start refereeing and where?

Johann Meuwesen (pictured): I refereed the odd game at Maties while studying, but officially started in 1989 when I joined the Namibia Referee Society.

Shaun Veldsman: How come that you ended up in Port Elizabeth??

Johann Meuwesen: I ran touch for South Africa vs /Argentina in 1994 in PE where I met up with the local referees. Jimmy Smith-Belton was the chairman of Eastern Province Refs then and he must have said a couple of good things about me to the headmaster of Otto du Plessis High School. Well, thirteen years on and I am still here.

Shaun Veldsman: Why TMO?

Johann Meuwesen: SA Rugby at that time thought that it was time for the introduction of specialised TMO's. I was at a stage of my career as referee where I had to decide where to go. André Watson approached me with his ideas on being a TMO and I didn't need any reason not accept.

Shaun Veldsman: Best rugby game ever involve in?

Johann Meuwesen: I was involved in a couple of crackers down the years. All the firsts will always be special, (Tests, Super 10, Super 12 Currie Cup, etc) but I recall a schools game back in 1990 in Harare. Even Zimbabwe's late Prime Minister, Ian Smith, congratulated the players of Prince Edward Harare and St George's School Harare after the game and named me the man of the match. Still proud on that one!

Shaun Veldsman: Best touring country/city?

Johann Meuwesen: Australia, with similar weather to ours, will always be high up on the list. But if on holiday away from rugby, you go to Namibia. Once a Suidwester always a Suidwester.

Shaun Veldsman: Droëwors or Biltong?

Johann Meuwesen: Refer to the previous answer. Definitely Biltong.

Shaun Veldsman: Ambassador or Referee?

Johan Meuwesen: A referee must always be an ambassador. Being retired now I will go for an ambassador who knows a bit about refereeing.

Shaun Veldsman: What do refs call you and why?

Johann Meuwesen: The senior guys (the ones who I refereed with, yes Paul Dobson included) call me Meerkat. Tappe thought there is quite a remarkable resemblance between me and the little predator from the Kalahari. Sorry to the junior guys, pick on your own size.

Shaun Veldsman: Most difficult decision?

Johann Meuwesen: When I've packed my bags for PE in 1996. But it was also my best decision, never looked back. I was blessed.

Shaun Veldsman: Whisky or Coffee?

Johann Meuwesen: Always coffee, I'm a bit of an addict. But I will compromise and settle for Irish Coffee.

Shaun Veldsman: What do kids call you at school?

Johann Meuwesen: It is still inconclusive to me on what they are calling me. Some of them will call time out and make a square box without saying anything.

Shaun Veldsman: Ever been sorry that you became a specialised TMO?

Johann Meuwesen: I've had a great career as referee. There were truly unbelievable moments and ones that I will cherish forever. Surely almost all off them not to be sorry about. I've started with a next career in refereeing as a TMO. New challenges and opportunities present themselves and I must be ready for the task at hand. I'm still as excited before every game as I was as a referee and looking forward to the rest of the season. Now I can take part in the game with a cup of coffee next to me. Who wants to be sorry?

 

[Baldric]

Refs are told all the time to ignore breaches of the Laws if it doesn't have a material effect. It's hard to see why a protocol should have a higher status than the Laws of the game.

Good point, but i this case there was material effect. But I know what you mean.

 

[Blob]

Refs are told all the time to ignore breaches of the Laws if it doesn't have a material effect. It's hard to see why a protocol should have a higher status than the Laws of the game.

The protocol describes how to interpret and apply a certain piece of law. Specifically, the law that states the TMO may only adjudicate on events in goal. That is a law, equivalent to other laws. The protocol is not a law and neither does it trump laws. Rather it clarifies an existing law. It is in place to ensure a consistent approach. You are suggesting that the refs should willfuly break one law in order to address the non-penalisation of another law that was not penalised by circumstance rather than design, namely the circumstance that neither the ref nor the ARs can run as fast as or faster than Israel Dagg. I think that's a pretty strange approach myself. What other illegal efforts should refs go to in order to correct acidentally illegal play?

 

[Blob]

Good point, but i this case there was material effect. But I know what you mean.

Materiality isn't really comparable is it? It is not unlawful for the ref to not penalise. It is unlawful for the TMO to adjudicate as the TMO did in that game.

 

[cyclopath]

Just sayin'.
We all get the various arguments. Move on folks.

 

[Blob]

No it isn't.

 

[Thomond78]

The protocol describes how to interpret and apply a certain piece of law. Specifically, the law that states the TMO may only adjudicate on events in goal. That is a law, equivalent to other laws. The protocol is not a law and neither does it trump laws. Rather it clarifies an existing law. It is in place to ensure a consistent approach. You are suggesting that the refs should willfuly break one law in order to address the non-penalisation of another law that was not penalised by circumstance rather than design, namely the circumstance that neither the ref nor the ARs can run as fast as or faster than Israel Dagg. I think that's a pretty strange approach myself. What other illegal efforts should refs go to in order to correct acidentally illegal play?

Actually, it doesn't. Touch is not in-goal, yet TMOs can rule on it.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Actually, it doesn't. Touch is not in-goal, yet TMOs can rule on it.

Because that aspect of play is clearly stated in the laws I thought.

What I don't get is this immature crap of comments like "you whinging kiwis". If you have an issue with what a poster writes so be it, point it out, argue it until the cows come home or a Mod gives you a rest. But this tarnishing of all is just lazy and inaccurate.

It's a point of discussion not a reason to just unleash some bile on all and sundry that don't agree with you or share your view.

 

[Scotty]

Because that aspect of play is clearly stated in the laws I thought.

What I don't get is this immature crap of comments like "you whinging kiwis". If you have an issue with what a poster writes so be it, point it out, argue it until the cows come home or a Mod gives you a rest. But this tarnishing of all is just lazy and inaccurate.

It's a point of discussion not a reason to just unleash some bile on all and sundry that don't agree with you or share your view.

Various times through the last few years we have heard 'you whinging Aussies' and 'you whinging force fans' and 'you whinging reds fans' - according to some there are more that whinge than don't!

Gross generalizations are fantastic, aren't they?

 

[Thomond78]

Because that aspect of play is clearly stated in the laws I thought.

What I don't get is this immature crap of comments like "you whinging kiwis". If you have an issue with what a poster writes so be it, point it out, argue it until the cows come home or a Mod gives you a rest. But this tarnishing of all is just lazy and inaccurate.

It's a point of discussion not a reason to just unleash some bile on all and sundry that don't agree with you or share your view.

ACTC, some of us have read the NZ Herald rugby coverage. Word to the wise, and all that.

(And to be fair; the entire world is crying out for an English-language equivalent of the great Midol...)

 

[Thomond78]

Various times through the last few years we have heard 'you whinging Aussies' and 'you whinging force fans' and 'you whinging reds fans' - according to some there are more that whinge than don't!

Gross generalizations are fantastic, aren't they?

Now, then; you lived here long enough to know it's "Aren't gross generalizations fantastic, Ted?"

DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING!

 

[Swarley]

Now, then; you lived here long enough to know it's "Aren't gross generalizations fantastic, Ted?"

DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING!

Careful now.

 

[ACT Crusader]

NZ Herald don't touch it.

In fact I hardly ever read any rugby journalism and haven't done so for about the last 10 years. I read the occasional line when posted here and the Fern but for the most part I just don't bother. Nothing personal against the journos.

Scotty - I hear what you're saying and yeah I have read that on here and other forums and it's just not my cup of cocoa and don't see the point really, and I've made that know before.

 

[ChargerWA]

What I don't get is this immature crap of comments like "you whinging kiwis".

It's a point of discussion not a reason to just unleash some bile on all and sundry that don't agree with you or share your view.

As MR identified a few pages back, it's really only Paarlbok on the attack. Don't get all bent out of shape about it, it's his modus operandi.

G&GR mods must be quite lenient, TSF figured him out fairly quickly.

 

[cyclopath]

Charger, PB has been here for a long time. English is not, as someone jokingly pointed out, his first language. And he's a passionate Bokke supporter. And he has contributed a lot over time. So he is entitled to a little bit of slack. But he has been sanctioned before, as have many of us (including me in the past). Nobody is immune. There are a few winding each other up here, it isn't one way.
I would prefer personal statements like yours were not perhaps aired on the thread.

 

[Thomond78]

Charger, PB has been here for a long time. English is not, as someone jokingly pointed out, his first language. And he's a passionate Bokke supporter. And he has contributed a lot over time. So he is entitled to a little bit of slack. But he has been sanctioned before, as have many of us (including me in the past). Nobody is immune. There are a few winding each other up here, it isn't one way.
I would prefer personal statements like yours were not perhaps aired on the thread.