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Tri Nations Game 5 - Springboks vs All Blacks

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PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Well done PB to your guys. It just goes to show that the rugby the Boks played at the last RWC and in 2009 is still good enough to win a game in 3N in 2011, albeit not against the the top NZ team.


All you need is guys like Heinrich Brüssow in your team and keep backing up at every ruck. BdP played bloody hard in the physical exchanges too but showed petulance when he was replaced and lost points with me. The Kiwis didn't contest enough and paid the price of losing the ruck turnover battle. It was surprising to see their scrum being bettered and it was funny listening to the Kiwi commentators trying to find the right words to describe it.


In the backs Jacque Fourie was valuable with and without the ball. He did the same bloody trick against the Blacks as he did against Oz: chiming into the AB line and swiping a pass near his goal line running the wrong way. Habana played with a high work rate that made a difference and JdV had a top defensive game. I thought FdP was quite ordinary though and his box kicks were not as of earlier years. M. Steyn played his Naas game well.


Nevertheless the Boks will be disappointed with their lack of threat with ball in hand.


Like the Wallabies last week the Blacks blew a few try scoring chances. As with Oz there were several series of bad passing and added to it many bad decisions at the tackle. They were lucky to get their try from a clear forward pass and the disallowing of what may have been a second was probably karma.


Henry would have wanted to see a lot more from the players outside his main 15 and 22 but he didn't get what he was looking for. He would have been particularly disappointed in Slade who was not a patch of what he was when he came off the bench last year in Sydney. Peeru looked better in his stint.


Kahui played well; Dagg and Toeava opened the Boks up a few times but sometimes lost the ball in the tackle. The scrummies were good and SBW very stern on defence. Thomson had a poor game and A. Williams and Myth weren't much better.


Well done to the Boks, but once the music stops they will have to consider how many players will be joining their starting XV compared to the numbers who will be joining the All Blacks XV.
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Dankie Oom Lee. Ja no way we can walk with our heads in the clouds. I got my improvement from last week and we can only go better from here. Important win for the Bokke and still some kick in that old age Bokke. We need their experiense and when the crunch come, they will be the ones that will keep us going.
 
O

OLDDOG

Guest
Whats the world coming to when the kiwis complain that they didnt score points from a forward pass? thats like saying its ok for mccaw to break illegally from the scrum and score match winning points... oh hang on, i forgot, thats alright too. suck it up lads, you win games by cheating, you cant win em all..... personally I cant wait for the day 3 video challenges are allowed per game. I reckon the ABs win/loss ratio would drop by 20 % at least :fishing
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
same old story but would Still like to see the penalty 2 points,

Same old objection. biggsy do you every wonder why people like myself think that this idea would be horrible for the the sport?

Clue: What could possibly be the unintended consequences of such a change?
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
Same old objection. biggsy do you every wonder why people like myself think that this idea would be horrible for the the sport?

Clue: What could possibly be the unintended consequences of such a change?

On behalf of wing-forwards and front rows everywhere - shhhhhhh.

;)
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Did you saw yesterday how pathetic that culurs singing the Maori version of NZ anthem, wish I could heard them without their teeth. Today not a single All Black supporter in Paarl, only Bok jerseys around , as expected as usual. Like Snor say, they are back "kas toe"

Translation for the odd one or two here who don't understand our mother tongue: They are back in their box.

Until next year anyway.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I can understand how you feel, MR, me with a NZ grandmother 'n' all, MAJOR AB supporter she was. I'm not aboriginal, and if you're not Maori we're both immigrants. On one side many generations in Oz for me but immigrants nonetheless. As young nations we must accept immigrants and hope and pray they embrace their new country with all their hearts. Which is why it pisses me off mightily to see NZers living here supporting the ABs, part of me feels if you don't love this country bugger off back to where you came from. Is Australia nothing more than a meal ticket and a safe haven for these fly-by-nighters?

I see your point Lindo, but whenever it's made I can't apply the same rules to myself.

Having lived in England for a little while, and maybe going back relatively soon, there is absolutely no way on this earth that I could ever cheer them on at a rugby match, or cricket, or a teabag throwing championship.*

Now that's England and a slightly different case. Any other country I moved to I could cheer on as long as the weren't playing the Wobs, but I can't see myself ever changing allegiance to cheer for someone else over Australia. Maybe if I'd moved somewhere as a child, but as an adult, no way.


*which is not to say I don't like England or had English mates when I lived there, I could just never support them in a national sense
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
I can understand how you feel, MR, me with a NZ grandmother 'n' all, MAJOR AB supporter she was. I'm not aboriginal, and if you're not Maori we're both immigrants. On one side many generations in Oz for me but immigrants nonetheless. As young nations we must accept immigrants and hope and pray they embrace their new country with all their hearts. Which is why it pisses me off mightily to see NZers living here supporting the ABs, part of me feels if you don't love this country bugger off back to where you came from. Is Australia nothing more than a meal ticket and a safe haven for these fly-by-nighters?

Which is why I admire Deans' position enormously. There's no doubt he gave up a lot when he accepted the Wallabies' coaching spot, especially with the Deans/Canterbury and the Deans/ABs histories. But he's made his bed and he's lying on it, good on you Robbie. May there be more new arrivals like you.

I couldn't disagree more.

If you had to move to England for better career opporunities for yourself would you support then change to supporting England over Australia? When you see matches at twickers and see loads of Aussies in the crowd, do you look at them and think "if you don't love England bugger off back to where you came from"? How do you feel about the GAGR Wallaby supporters who live in Blighty? Does it piss you off mightly that Gagger & co still supprt Australia?

Anyway, didn't see the game but sounds like it panned out exactly as expected (for me anyway). Boks won playing WC rugby, we got owned in the forwards, Woodcock is still a penalty magnet & Thompson/Messam showed themselves to not be threatening the number 1's.

Well done to the boks - beating SA in SA is always one of the hardest challenges in global rugby & if you don't play your best team, you don't have a hope in hell.

AGree with GH about the whole forward pass thing - if it's the correct decison then who cares how it came about. Can't blame some people for being pissed off but at the end of the day, the correct decison was made.
 
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Swarley

Bob Loudon (25)
I couldn't disagree more.

If you had to move to England for better career opporunities for yourself would you support then change to supporting England over Australia? When you see matches at twickers and see loads of Aussies in the crowd, do you look at them and think "if you don't love England bugger off back to where you came from"? How do you feel about the GAGR Wallaby supporters who live in Blighty? Does it piss you off mightly that Gagger & co still supprt Australia?

I'm with you MR. As a born and bred Australian, who has grown up supporting the Wallabies, the Kangaroos, the Socceroos, the Hockeyroos and every other Australian supporting team, I couldn't move overseas and just jump over to the dark side. What about people like George Gregan, who played 139 games for the Wallabies and captained the national team, should he have started supporting Japan whilst he played for Suntory? People always complain that there's no loyalty left in sport, but suddenly shifting your national allegiance because you've moved overseas is ridiculous.
 

Brisbok

Cyril Towers (30)
I believe this issue of supporting the local team was raised with regards to the 'Cape Crusaders' (I may be wrong, too many pages to read through). In that respect, these are South Africans, born in South Africa, raised in South Africa, will most likely never step foot in New Zealand and with absolutely no other link to New Zealand at all, attending games in South Africa and supporting the All Blacks. Not just supporting the All Blacks though, but going out of there way to show their hate for the Springboks. So it is in no way similar to someone immigrating but staying true to their country of birth!

On that note it is amazing to meet a large number of Australians who believe that people who migrate to Australia should then support the Wallabies and other local teams. They cannot understand people still choosing to support the sporting team from their country of birth. Particularly strange for those in QLD and NSW (who provide the majority of rugby union players and supporters) who are so passionate about the State of Origin in rugby league. For some reason they cannot understand the concept that moving to a country for a better way of life, does not go hand and hand with a sudden change in preference for sporting teams!
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
I believe this issue of supporting the local team was raised with regards to the 'Cape Crusaders' (I may be wrong, too many pages to read through). In that respect, these are South Africans, born in South Africa, raised in South Africa, will most likely never step foot in New Zealand and with absolutely no other link to New Zealand at all, attending games in South Africa and supporting the All Blacks. Not just supporting the All Blacks though, but going out of there way to show their hate for the Springboks. So it is in no way similar to someone immigrating but staying true to their country of birth!

On that note it is amazing to meet a large number of Australians who believe that people who migrate to Australia should then support the Wallabies and other local teams. They cannot understand people still choosing to support the sporting team from their country of birth. Particularly strange for those in QLD and NSW (who provide the majority of rugby union players and supporters) who are so passionate about the State of Origin in rugby league. For some reason they cannot understand the concept that moving to a country for a better way of life, does not go hand and hand with a sudden change in preference for sporting teams!

Welcome on board Boet, good to have another Springbok supporter from Australia and Stormers make it even better!
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Couple of things on points that have been raised. If we are not Aboriginals in OZ or Maoris in NZ, we are still not immigrants!! My ancestors on both sides moved to NZ in 1850, how the hell can I be called an immigrant? I am an immagrant in Oz though! As for it being necessary to support the country of your birth, in NZ I had a few mates who were born in NZ and still supported Wales as thats where there parents had emigrated from, and they had always heard them support Wales as children, that is alright,it's sport not war you support whichever team you enjoy watching or winning the most.I was always pleased me son never thought about playing for any rugby club but mine, regardless of where all his friends played. I actually almost never support the Kiwi league team maybe because I don't like the game, and secondly they mostly play and live outside of NZ. I also defend my and anyone elses right to support who they wish.
 

Brisbok

Cyril Towers (30)
Agree with your comment that people should be able to support whoever they wish. I feel the situation in South Africa is unique and very complicated. It would be very hard to relate this to anything that happens in Australia or New Zealand. The contentious issue with the Cape Crusaders is that they choose to support the All Blacks more out of hate for the Springboks than love for the All Blacks. The majority of them act as if they are passionate AB supporters yet they would struggle to provide any background on the majority of the AB players if asked. They only know the bare minimum of facts about a couple of the star players, but would not be able to tell you which ITM Cup team any of the players represent, or any other information that can not be found in the headlines of a South African newspaper! They are merely supporting the AB's as a rebellion against the Springboks and what Springbok Rugby supposedly represents historically.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Agree with your comment that people should be able to support whoever they wish. I feel the situation in South Africa is unique and very complicated. It would be very hard to relate this to anything that happens in Australia or New Zealand. The contentious issue with the Cape Crusaders is that they choose to support the All Blacks more out of hate for the Springboks than love for the All Blacks. The majority of them act as if they are passionate AB supporters yet they would struggle to provide any background on the majority of the AB players if asked. They only know the bare minimum of facts about a couple of the star players, but would not be able to tell you which ITM Cup team any of the players represent, or any other information that can not be found in the headlines of a South African newspaper! They are merely supporting the AB's as a rebellion against the Springboks and what Springbok Rugby supposedly represents historically.
Boet they take it one step further, they blame Saru and the SA goverment aswell

NZ Herald
But the political history is only part of it. Danville Felkers, chairman of the Eastern Cape All Blacks supporters club, which has 3000 registered members, sheds light on the fanbase.

"I was born into supporting the All Blacks. My father, grandfather and uncles are very passionate supporters, and it is very easy for new generations to continue this tradition because the All Blacks are a brilliant rugby team. They are the Manchester United of rugby. They win consistently and they win in style. People love winners."

Older members of the Port Elizabeth community are in no hurry to convert their children into Bok supporters. They feel stranded by empty promises from the game's governing body.

"Rugby has died in the schools of the [poor] northern suburbs," Felkers says. "And we have played rugby in this region forever. But we have no facilities. There has been no investment from Saru, no upliftment and we feel let down."

Once more, in a brand-new era, resentment of Saru has been channelled into supporting the Springboks' opposition.

"In our suburbs we are crying out for sport to give our teenagers something to do to keep them away from drugs and crime. Rugby can do that, but it hasn't because the system has let us down."

Saru's flagship investment in the Eastern Cape is, of course, the Southern Kings, and bully to them for resurrecting top-flight rugby in the region, but for the less affluent rugby man on the ground this means diddly squat.

"Nothing has changed at grass roots," says Felkers. "We don't feel that Saru is engaging us. We don't feel any affinity to Saru. We remain forgotten."

Saru CEO and the Government blame the provinces being to white and it leave all three parties doing nothing to try and rectify things on grassroot level. Thats the vicisious racist cycle we live in SA, blaming Apartheid for everything wrong on their levels and completely forget that charities starts at home. Grey Bleom isnt SA top rugby school because of Saru or the ANC government, it all starts with dedication from parents, teachers and old boys. Suppose supporting the All Blacks will solve everything.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
Boet they take it one step further, they blame Saru and the SA goverment aswell

Oom - EVERYONE blames SARU and the SA government. Everyone always has, and everyone always will. It's what they're there for.

However, I don't know if Oom noticed the same oke - bruin ou, no front teeth - who was in the AB jersey next to the lads in Bok jerseys and singing Gud Duyfund New Zealund. They cut back to him in the SA anthem - and that singer should just have shut up and let the crowd sing, because they were superb - and he was belting out the anthem with tears in his eyes. In his AB jersey.

South Africa - couldn't see sane with a telescope, but wonderful all the same. ;)
 

AngrySeahorse

Peter Sullivan (51)
Agree with your comment that people should be able to support whoever they wish. I feel the situation in South Africa is unique and very complicated. It would be very hard to relate this to anything that happens in Australia or New Zealand. The contentious issue with the Cape Crusaders is that they choose to support the All Blacks more out of hate for the Springboks than love for the All Blacks. The majority of them act as if they are passionate AB supporters yet they would struggle to provide any background on the majority of the AB players if asked. They only know the bare minimum of facts about a couple of the star players, but would not be able to tell you which ITM Cup team any of the players represent, or any other information that can not be found in the headlines of a South African newspaper! They are merely supporting the AB's as a rebellion against the Springboks and what Springbok Rugby supposedly represents historically.

People of Serbian & Croatian ancestry who were born & raised in Australia, know very little of the issues or facts about the 'old country' but acting as if they are citizens of those countries & not Australia. We get them at the tennis & soccer a lot. I'm sure it probably doesnt reflect the SA issue on every aspect but it is very similar. Identity is certainly a subjective and complicated thing I'll say that.
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
People of Serbian & Croatian ancestry who were born & raised in Australia, know very little of the issues or facts about the 'old country' but acting as if they are citizens of those countries & not Australia. We get them at the tennis & soccer a lot. I'm sure it probably doesnt reflect the SA issue on every aspect but it is very similar. Identity is certainly a subjective and complicated thing I'll say that.

Exactly. I think its fair enough to hold on to some old allegiances, especially if you are first generation immigrant, but to turn your back on the country you were raised in, a country which educated you and provided you with one of the best lifestyles of any country in the world, is just wrong and people who do it are ungrateful so and so's.
 

AngrySeahorse

Peter Sullivan (51)
Exactly. I think its fair enough to hold on to some old allegiances, especially if you are first generation immigrant, but to turn your back on the country you were raised in, a country which educated you and provided you with one of the best lifestyles of any country in the world, is just wrong and people who do it are ungrateful so and so's.

Exactly. My family is mostly Irish and although I'm not 1st generation we've kept and even rediscovered our culture from that place which I hold dear especially given the crap my ancestors had to put up with for me to be alive today but Australia will always be no.1 when it comes to following international sports. After that then Ireland :) & never ever England.
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
I would never expect an immigrant to support the Wallabies, because in the reverse situation I couldn't support anyone but Australia. Cultural identity is very important. But it is nice to see provincial support.

My good mate who I go to the Force games with is a Kiwi who would never support anyone but the AB's, yet he supports the Force as he realises the importance of supporting the local team, espescially in a marginal market such as WA.
 
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