• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

TPN

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jiggles

Guest
TPN is definitely a crowd favourite. What’s not to love about his wild hair, suicidal tackling technique and mid-field runs?

This year is probably his best run in terms of lack of injuries he has had in a long time (despite being injured now), and this should be the year where we finally see his ‘World Class’ ability shining through. So why isn’t it?

The column by Sully on the front page confirmed for me what I have been thinking all season. His work rate is abysmal compared to Moore, worse than Hanson, and probably even worse than Charles. How will it compare when Fainga'a starts to play more games with the reds? It wouldn’t be a stretch to consider him the 4th best hooker in the country right now.

The Wallabies have been consistently beaten at the breakdown by the All Blacks over the Deans tenure, so do we really want a guy like TPN, who seems to have such a poor work ethic, sitting on the bench?

Is it fair to say that TPN is a bit of a myth, who was overhyped from the beginning? Has his work rate always been this poor, or is he playing unfit or injured, and if so, how is this allowed?

Discuss.
 
waratahjesus

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
I always think workrate is one thing impact is another.

Like with the article on the breakaways, you can say Hoover stays lose, has a much poorer work rate than Gill yet they both have great impact for the respective teams.

TPN has an ability to impact games and change momentum, in this ability he is quite alone in Australian rugbys hooker ranks. Moore is the complete hooker but I still wouldn't pick a 22 without TPN in it.

His work ethic being questioned really doesn't take into account his style of play and is a bit over the top.
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
The impact, as you put it, he has been creating this year hasn't been creating results for the tahs, so how valuable is it?
 
T

TOCC

Guest
like WJ mentioned... TPN has impact greater then any of the other Aussie hookers.. Its not a fair comparison to look directly at the stats..

Thats like saying Richard Brown is a better number 8 then Wycliff Palu because he has a higher work rate..
 
waratahjesus

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Jiggles said:
The impact, as you put it, he has been creating this year hasn't been creating results for the tahs, so how valuable is it?
Click to expand...

TPN is a starter at the Tahs due to the hooking talent being spread out. At international level he is a bench player as he can create a difference when he comes on. Hanson & Charles have come along in leaps and bounds and both are good players, I just think a bench player for the wallabies shoud be able to turn a game, not be safe.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Players like Hanson and Charles are safety first options, they do the small things well and have a high involvement, but they are unlikely to ever make a big tackle which turns the ball over, or make a strong charge through heavy defence. These are things TPN does.. TPN is the type of player you want on the bench for the Wallabies, someone who can come on and turn the game if needed.

I wouldn't underestimate TPN, his stats are slightly skewed in 2011 due to other factors like his teams overall performance as well..
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
Its all well and good to say TPN can make this impact, but is he actually making it? I can't remember him ever coming on and turning a game, and against the All Blacks in particular.

In 2009 in Sydney the Wallabies were up 12 - 3 at half time and we lost 18 - 19. TPN came on 49th Minute.

In 2009 in Tokyo the Wallabies were up 16 - 13 at half time and we lost 19 - 32. TPN came on 49th Minute.

I am not for one second saying he is the reason we lost those games, but for a supposed impact player, he didn't make much of an impact. He has never made the type of impact that BdP has made coming on for the Boks.

The Wallabies issues in the forwards have always been compounded in the second half when the legs get tired. The subs need to come on and pick the work rate up again. Making "a big tackle which turns the ball over, or make a strong charge through heavy defence" is the gravy. Right now TPN is lacking the meat and spuds, so to speak, which is getting his head into those rucks and securing fast ball for our talented backs.
 
waratahjesus

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
I don't think there is any hooker in weld rugby that comes lose to matching Bismarc at the moment, I'm sure even the most ardent TPN fan would admit that.

TPN doesn't miss tackles.he makes decent meters running and he hits everything he does hard. It's one thing to say he hasn't made an impact against the all blacks but the Aus forwards havnt as a unit in many many years.

As TOCC said above,a few years ago Richard Brown was meant to make Palu uneeded with his massive work rate, but it's one thing to get your head in aruck and another to actually make impact while doing it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RBS
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
TPNs technique doesn't seem to result in injuries at test level as often. Wonder why that is?
I haven't made a close study of his play this year but he doesn't seem to operate in the modern 2 mode of acting as an extra flanker.
Big hits are over rated in terms of their significance to the outcome of games: more ball is turned over by contest at the ruck than is lost by a big hit.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Again, "work-rate" being used as the core measure of a tight forward. He scrums well, his throwing has improved this year, not perfect, but better, and he makes an impact. I would like to see him modify his style and gear it more to some self-preservation and longevity.
I don't want to see reserve front rowers come on and suddenly we cede any scrum advantage or even parity for the sake of someone whose work rate is 2.4 ergs higher.
 
Happy

Happy

Alex Ross (28)
I'm not so sure about TPN's effectiveness either. He seems to be excellent at scrum time, and he does make some good runs and big hits, but it also looks like he needs a bit of a lie down and rest several times a game.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I think TPN has certainly asserted himself as being amongst the top two hookers in the country this season. Last year it was Moore first and daylight second. Now I think the gap has increased from 2nd (TPN) to the rest.

His scrummaging is the best in the country and that is a key part of being hooker. His lineout throwing his improved. He is a good defender and puts on some big hits and his ball skills are incredible. The number of times he picks up terrible passes or does something else very skilful is quite impressive.

He was instrumental in the Tahs victory over the Sharks when he ran onto a pass that looked for all money like it was going to no-one, caught the pass at full pace around his ankles, then threw an excellent pass to put Kingston in for the winning try.

Judging our tight five purely on 'workrate' is surely detrimental to the overall performance of the team.
 
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I think this argument is a little bit like the Higgers argument. Both Higgers & TPN play a role for their teams. The Tahs seem to want the big tackle and the big run. TPN is given license to provide them. As Higgers is given license to range wider than most backrowers are allowed.
 
Craig Riddington

Craig Riddington

Sydney Middleton (9)
Braveheart81 said:
I think TPN has certainly asserted himself as being amongst the top two hookers in the country this season. Last year it was Moore first and daylight second. Now I think the gap has increased from 2nd (TPN) to the rest.

His scrummaging is the best in the country and that is a key part of being hooker. His lineout throwing his improved. He is a good defender and puts on some big hits and his ball skills are incredible. The number of times he picks up terrible passes or does something else very skilful is quite impressive.

He was instrumental in the Tahs victory over the Sharks when he ran onto a pass that looked for all money like it was going to no-one, caught the pass at full pace around his ankles, then threw an excellent pass to put Kingston in for the winning try.

Judging our tight five purely on 'workrate' is surely detrimental to the overall performance of the team.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I would agree. Moore is the stand-out Hooker and is world class. Beyond that, it then comes down to the system that you play and the balance of the team. Finger is superb in the Reds system. His mobility, workrate and low tackling sets up many opportunities for his colleagues to compete at the breakdown. Would TPN be better in this system? No. However, if you are in need of a ball carrying, big hitting hooker, TPN's your man. The question is, what do the Wallaby's and the Tah's need? I would argue that for the tah's, with Elsom/Dennis, Kepu, Palu and co., another big guy taking the ball forward isn't really needed...and if is, then you hang on to the ball, drive it up the guts and never kick the bloody thing away. TPN is brilliant in the right system.

I think it's also raises the broader question of what approach the Wallabies should have towards tackling (high vs. low) and the subsequent breakdown.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top