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Thoughts on the Wallabies 2010 Tri Nations performance.

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ScepticalScotty

Stan Wickham (3)
A bit controversially, I think I will wait to say if we have really improved until we see how the Wallabies go against the NH teams up here (I live in the UK). I'd like to think the Wallas will give each of the teams they play a damn good hiding, and I think its a strong possibility. For some reason I see England as a major threat, only because they will try and keep 80% of the ball (do little with it though) and kick us to death. I think we are vulnerable to that, but ultimately I also believe particularly NZ and Aus play a game thats too fast for them to be able to do that, and they no longer have the dominant forward pack in world rugby; despite what many blowhards will tell you overe here!

I'm vowing to never visit the Roar again after the crowing of some NZers there, when I know most of them are OK guys in real life (I have a lot of relatives there). Ungracious losing is one thing.....but ungracious winning I just cant cop at all.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
I am pretty disappointed with this years results, but the performances were an improvement on last year. I'm kind of happy that Graham has gone to the force as we need some new blood in the leadership/coaching ranks. I feel like we aren't far off, but I have been saying that since 2008 now and something needs to change to give us that extra 5% that we need to beat the ABs particularly.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
A kiwi view. We scored a couple of special mentions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10673987

Rugby: Tri-Nations series heroes, villains and magic moments
By Dylan Cleaver

Captain Courageous, his slimline teammate - and the odd incendiary comment. It had it all.

Best player
Richie McCaw: No prizes for guessing this one. The next four in line would have been All Blacks as well, with Kieran Read, Brad Thorn and Keven Mealamu outstanding.

Wallaby David Pocock was the closest foreigner, though he blotted his copybook with an ordinary night in Sydney.

Surprise package
Piri Weepu: Looking like something out of a Jenny Craig commercial, Weepu wasn't just thinner, he looked a different player. Snappy and direct, he also hoofed over kicks when required.

Kick of the series
Kurtley Beale: Time up, penalty near the sideline on the halfway line. The Boks are up by one. Beale, not the first-choice kicker, steps up in front of a baying bunch of Bloemfonteiners. Nailed it. Wallabies win by two. Weepu's effort when taking over from Daniel Carter against the Boks in Wellington wasn't bad, but there was not so much riding on it.


Quote of the series
"Graham Henry is a good coach, but he's like me, he has a big mouth." Peter de Villiers proves remarkably prescient in the lead-up to the opening test. By the end of the tournament it was obvious that A) Henry was a good coach and, B) de Villiers had an extremely large mouth.

Biggest disappointment
Pierre Spies: The man is a lion, as long as the opposition are baby gnu, abandoned by their mothers on the Serengeti.

Make it an even fight, and Spies doesn't want to know. Matt Giteau and his errant boot comes in a close second.

Best newcomer
Francois Hougaard: Ricky Januarie and Ruan Pienaar have tried and failed to convince South Africans the world keeps turning while Fourie du Preez is injured.

In Hougaard, they appeared to find their saviour. he could be a pest for years to come, just where they play him when du Preez comes back is another matter. Props to Israel Dagg and Ben McCalman as well.

Best tackle
Cory Jane: His try-saver on Lachie Turner in Sydney was, as it panned out, pivotal. Hougaard's effort on Adam Ashley-Cooper in Pretoria deserves a mention. Jerome Kaino made a few bone-crunchers. But fans shouldn't expect to see spectacular hits in rugby anymore: the refs blow up anything that looks like it might hurt.

Biggest gaffe
John Smit: It's your 100th test, the kids have been on the field with you, you've given your guts and then some, and somehow your team has kept the favoured All Blacks to a draw. Well almost. Away goes Ma'a Nonu, through a tired and tepid tackle from the Boks proud skipper, Israel Dagg scores and it's heartbreak on the highveld.

Longest face
Rocky Elsom: Nobody does the morose post-match interview after a loss like Australian skipper Rocky Elsom. The Australian strappers would be advised to remove all pairs of scissors from the changing sheds.

Biggest clown
Bakkies Botha: Remember him? Even Smit couldn't explain the actions of his grafting lock after he planted a headbutt into the back of Jimmy Cowan's head during the opening test at Auckland.
 
C

chief

Guest
I honestly thought Pocock had a better series than McCaw. He was far and away the best. McCaw the best captain, but Pocock the best at adapting to the new interpretations. Elsom wasn't too bad either.

Honestly, there is a lot of talent in this team, and these last few matches have shown if Deans picks the right team, then he can win the RWC.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
If we can go up North and put their teams away, then I'll believe we're capable of more. I think we have the team now to beat the Boks, especially in the backs. I'm not so convinced we have the mental strength yet to beat the Blacks. If we can't beat them in HK, then I think we're pretty much buggered next year. If we want to win the 3N and RWC in 2011 it will mean going through them. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.
 
D

dwats002

Guest
think deans is struggling with developing your boyz from scratch. In Canterbury they have a pretty good development programme that sets them up well, plus they would have already had experience from NPC rugby, so when they were chosen they were ready skillfully, physically and mentally. It seem the wallabies are a development programme in itself, and the fact they aren't winning too often is reducing their confidence.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
If we can go up North and put their teams away, then I'll believe we're capable of more. I think we have the team now to beat the Boks, especially in the backs. I'm not so convinced we have the mental strength yet to beat the Blacks. If we can't beat them in HK, then I think we're pretty much buggered next year. If we want to win the 3N and RWC in 2011 it will mean going through them. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.

We sure have to beat them to win the Tri-Nations, but the RWC draw is cunningly arranged for the ABs to play all their bogey teams before they get a chance to play us in the final.

Give 'm a long enough rope and they're fairly likely to choke themselves with it.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Groucho, the Darkness does not need a long rope to choke on. If it is a RWC year, a simple ham sandwich would do the trick.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
We sure have to beat them to win the Tri-Nations, but the RWC draw is cunningly arranged for the ABs to play all their bogey teams before they get a chance to play us in the final.

Give 'm a long enough rope and they're fairly likely to choke themselves with it.

Quite right Groucho, but in looking at the draw, we would have to beat the AB's (or whoever beats them) to win the comp. We might have to play the Boks in a QF too.
 

MrMouse

Bob Loudon (25)
A couple of players who have been consistently outstanding: Sharpe, Pocock

Players who have often been outstanding: Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale, Burgess

Sometimes: Genia, Fainga'a, Elsom, McCalman, Giteau, Mitchell, JO'C

Fixed :)
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
No better and no worse from the players.

Coaching and Selection IMO failed dismally this year and has been a key feature of Deans tenure.

I like others am Glad that Graham is gone from the Wallabies role, but I am not happy that he has a S15 gig. IMO he has proved pretty worthless at best in the Wallabies as a skills coach. The skills execution and development of the players has not improved at all during his tenure. I fear the Force are in for a very poor showing unless Sharpe & Pocock can sideline him and take charge.

Williams was one of my favourite players and by all accounts a great success as coach in the NH. WTF has happened then? The pigs have been an inconsistant rabble one week and then prove unstoppable for 50 minutes the next. Technique at the ruck has improved but continues to be, did I say inconsistant. Couple this to the fact that a number of players do not deserve to be starting and there were options all year such as McCalman who had never been tried and surprise surprise in two tests he showed more grunt and application than the incumbent had in the past three.

Use of the bench has to be the biggest failure of the season. Even a week after the bench won a test match for the Wallabies Deans failed to inject fresh players early for injured or fatigued members.

The total lack of any discernable game plan or even a pattern of play in the first 8 tests was a major let down for me. In the last two games the Wallabies played with much more structure and finally looked like they knew their individual roles. What a change a bit of structure makes and it was a clear break from the "play what is in front of you" rubbish which should be read from now on "run into the the defender in front of you" ala League.

1 positive for me was the improvement in performance of the third or fifth choice props especially Ma'afu from what he started at. This was IMO the sole province of Pato Noriega. Ma'afu is not a test level prop but Pato was able to instill enough in him to get him through. This proves that while you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear you can make a coin purse from the Kangaroo's scrotum.
 

ScepticalScotty

Stan Wickham (3)
Every time we played the All Blacks it was predicted that "it would get ugly" and they would beat us by 40 points. This didn't really happen, and all the wild crowing from over the Tasman is about a 1 point win. Yep that close. Yep - we lost true enough, but I have never bought this constant "yeah the All Blacks played badly thats why you were in the game" any more than I have bought the line that every time Australia loses it's because THEY didn't turn up. It would ungracious to say if you win that you played poorly - even if it WAS true.
 

Scorz

Syd Malcolm (24)
Not much crowing where I am, it's all about being happy because of the 10 in a row streak, Robbie Deans has the worst Wobbs coach ever record against the AB's and I'm a loud and proud Henry fan so I'll smile about that too. I haven' heard or believe myself that it's an accident you guys got that close though. Next year will be epic.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Quite right Groucho, but in looking at the draw, we would have to beat the AB's (or whoever beats them) to win the comp. We might have to play the Boks in a QF too.

We're on the other side of the draw from both the ABs and the Saffas. Either one of them or us would have to come second in our pool to meet before the final.

But I guess my point is that I'd rather play any other team than the ABs in the final. If they choke before the final then we probably won't have to play them at all, like South Africa in 2007.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
We're on the other side of the draw from both the ABs and the Saffas. Either one of them or us would have to come second in our pool to meet before the final.

But I guess my point is that I'd rather play any other team than the ABs in the final. If they choke before the final then we probably won't have to play them at all, like South Africa in 2007.

Yep, understood.

Scorz, I agree, next year's 3N could be monumental if all three teams have fit squads.
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
I honestly thought Pocock had a better series than McCaw. He was far and away the best. McCaw the best captain, but Pocock the best at adapting to the new interpretations. Elsom wasn't too bad either.

Honestly, there is a lot of talent in this team, and these last few matches have shown if Deans picks the right team, then he can win the RWC.

No point getting too wrapped up in it, as this the wrong thread for it, but if the AB and Wobs win/loss records were reversed for this TriNats/Bled and these two had played the way they did, I doubt Richie would barely rate a mention in this context.

As for thoughts on this TN, after the loss last week, I was angrier than I have ever been after a loss. Like JJJ, I only came to Rugby in the last 5 years, when we have been at the bottom of the heap for pretty much the whole time. You do indeed learn to expect failure, but still renew your Foxtel every year and good or bad, love supporting the wobs. I think the reason that last week really got me angry was that we have seen enough over the TN to know that we do have the skills and players to finally challenge the #1 team in the world for that mantle (this year the AB's, last couple the Springboks). With a few days of calm reflection, you swallow the dissapointment, and come to the realisation that at least you had the oppourtunity to get angry. Our group is still young, and we have a real chance of success in the next 5 years if we can retain and reinforce this player group, not so sure about the coach though............
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Mr Mouse - I'm still going with Genia as often outstanding and Moore sometimes. S Fainga'a was sometimes adequate.

Chief - I disagree with you regarding Pocock and McCaw. Right now, when considering their all round game, McCaw is the better player. Pocock has been outstanding (in terms of tackling, the breakdown and general mongrel) and will get even better in all areas. He will keep McCaw honest (?) for sure, and will get the better of him (hopefully) soon.

Gnostic (legend - see my signature) and Scotty - yes, Gnostic has said much of that before, but in his defence the Wallabies results have also been a bit like a broken record too (with the occasional bit of clarity).
 

ScepticalScotty

Stan Wickham (3)
Maybe I have a different view of the Wallabies having lived in England since 2000. At home I saw thier best, at a distance, some of the worst. If you follow it from here the Tri Nations seems a little odd as a competition..eg when England defeated us in Perth it was an immeadiate sign for the more stupid (post 2003 usually) of thier supporters to declare they were now "equal to challanging NZ for the title of number 1". The papers over here swing between fawning admiration for the 3N sides and utter contempt for all southern hemispere rugby - we are already starting hear the term "basketball" bandied about up here ffs! it usually goes like this;

1. NZ win - its because they cheat or bribe the refs
2. Australia win - this was a fluke, or it now proves that SA & NZ are hopeless.
3. SA win - its because they are thugs or it was a fluke.

The people who hate all SH rugby are always onto a winner somehow.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
A kiwi's view

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10674444


Is this the start of their preparation to explain away the Darkness' inexorable quad-annual choke?

Rugby: Wallabies worthy of respect but not fear
By Gregor Paul
5:30 AM Sunday Sep 19, 2010


There's a growing wariness about the Wallabies and the potential threat they will pose this time next year.

So what if they have lost 10 in a row to the All Blacks - does anyone really trust them not to lose another two and then beat New Zealand at next year's World Cup?

It would be so typically Australian to win when they have to - to rip out the All Blacks' heart then dance on it. This is the Wallabies, the masters at pressure football; the sort of cunning foxes who really would deliberately bumble their way through three-and-a-half years just to keep their true World Cup credentials a surprise.

The presence of Robbie Deans doesn't help breed trust on this side of the Tasman. Everyone knows the genius of Deans. He's a campaign coach - knows how to plan from day one to the final in detail. He was hired on a four-year contract, asked to build a side that would win the 2011 World Cup.

The last two months have seen the Wallabies grow into a more credible force.


They were committed and organised in Christchurch, created a thousand and one chances in Pretoria, showed guts and creativity in Bloemfontein and control and accuracy in Sydney.

The backline could equal the one that featured George Gregan, Stephen Larkham, Joe Roff, Matt Burke, Tim Horan and Jason Little.

The forwards are definitely more robust than they were; their set-piece work greatly improved, their conditioning better and their physical presence obvious. One more year and this could be a seriously good Australian team.

To think any less of the Wallabies is to invite disaster. New Zealand's rugby fraternity has this unwritten code of being unduly nervous of opponents and overly generous about their capabilities.

Favouritism, particularly at World Cups, is a label not worn well by the All Blacks, which may explain this reluctance to see the alternative view about the Wallabies.

For all the qualities they have shown in their last four tests, they have won only two. They were leading 21-7 in Pretoria and 22-9 in Sydney and yet blew it. They nearly lost in Bloemfontein as well, after a 31-6 lead.

Once the strongest mental side in world rugby, the Wallabies are now the biggest bottlers. They have lost the winning habit and they are a side, certainly when they play the All Blacks, that don't believe they can win.

The Wallaby teams who won World Cups in 1991 and 1999 peaked for the event.

But both those teams made progressive improvements in terms of results, with their win ratios higher in the two years before the World Cup than they were in the two years after.

The Wallabies had an overall win ratio of 62 per cent between 1988 and 1991 and beat the All Blacks in 1990 and 1991 - something they had failed to do in either of the two previous years. That record win against England in 1990 showed they were on the right track.

It was the same in the 1996-1999 cycle. They won 54 per cent of their tests in 1996, 72 per cent in 1997 and 84 per cent in 1998 and 1999.

The record under Deans is entirely different. Overall, they have a 54 per cent win ratio; winning 64 per cent in 2008, 46 per cent in 2009 and 50 per cent so far this year. There is no obvious progression and these are not great returns.

Can a team barely winning half their games for three years burst into life in World Cup year and win the thing?

Those who say yes need to look closely at what has been witnessed this year.

Rocky Elsom has lost his cool with referees on numerous occasions, something a test captain simply can't afford to do. He's a bruising runner, big defender and hard worker - but an iconic captain in the same mould as Nick Farr-Jones and John Eales? Not even close.

Matt Giteau has been a passenger and clearly doesn't have the nerve for pressure goal-kicking. Kurtley Beale has been brilliant and awful - a man who screams flake. Quade Cooper runs their attack nicely but in his first three Tri Nations games this year made just 30 tackles from 58 attempts.

David Pocock is a brilliant No 7 but can he adapt to individual referees or will his age and lack of experience lead him, as happened in Sydney, to plough on regardless and scream at the official he's getting it wrong?

And what about Deans? Is he as sage and in control as everyone believes? Australian players don't necessarily have the same rugby education as those in Canterbury. The patterns, the skills, the ways of thinking are not ingrained and does Deans have the patience to get through to players who can't operate on instinct?

Is he setting the right tone or is he breeding a culture where the team and those around them are happier to allude to unpenalised All Black transgressions as the key differences?

"The Australians are running scared," says former All Black selector Peter Thorburn.

"Every opportunity they get to talk about the All Blacks cheating, they take it."

Distrusting Australians is in the DNA. They have to be respected, but certainly not feared.
 
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