The Wallabies Thread

[TOCC]

Er, everyone was mostly just talking about his set piece. I don't think it constitutes a dismissive "love-in" crack.

It was a joke mate..
3 consectiuve posts all praising Simmons is about as much as a love-in as Simmons has ever received in a forum discussing Wallabies selection.

 

[TSR]

He’s had a remarkably good career really - when you consider he is apparently shite at pretty much everything.

 

[Gnostic]

Sorry to break up the Simmons love-in, but for the amount of experience Simmons has he doesn’t covert that into consistent quality rugby. He has always been selected first because of his set piece and that is his clear strength, it’s his other work which is the issue. Around the ground his work rate is typically quite high, but his accuracy at the ruck is poor, his ability to gets cross the gain line is non-existent and whilst he may make a large number of tackles he rarely makes a dominant tackle.



For many years he was the most technically proficient set piece lock in the country, but with guys like Coleman and Rodda running their lineouts at their respective teams and also playing parts in dominant scrums, i really struggle to see what Simmons value adds anymore.



Has he got worse? No, rather we’ve got a new wave of locks coming through who are better.

That's fine, but IF Simmons selction is balanced with another lock who provides what he doesn't away from the set piece but is adequate at the set piece they would make a very effective combination. He doesn't have that at the Tahs with Hanigan a workrate loosie with good lineout skills.

Before I rate Coleman and Rodda ahead of Simmons in the set piece we need to look at losses in attack and steals in defence plus pressure ball etc. Against the Ponies with a Wallaby he managed to pressure them and steal some for no losses (crooked throw not counted).

I am not advocating for him as much as it might seem, but neither am I advocating for his non selection on the basis of subjective evidence for others who may be up and coming "better" locks.

My biggest take away point has been largely missed and that is if Simmons (or most others) is selected he must be part of a balanced pairing and hopefully a balanced backrow that doesn't give the team masses of workrate with no gain line potential and no dominance in contact in tight (or for that matter even in channel 3.

 

[TOCC]

That's fine, but IF Simmons selction is balanced with another lock who provides what he doesn't away from the set piece but is adequate at the set piece they would make a very effective combination. He doesn't have that at the Tahs with Hanigan a workrate loosie with good lineout skills.

Before I rate Coleman and Rodda ahead of Simmons in the set piece we need to look at losses in attack and steals in defence plus pressure ball etc. Against the Ponies with a Wallaby he managed to pressure them and steal some for no losses (crooked throw not counted).

I am not advocating for him as much as it might seem, but neither am I advocating for his non selection on the basis of subjective evidence for others who may be up and coming "better" locks.

My biggest take away point has been largely missed and that is if Simmons (or most others) is selected he must be part of a balanced pairing and hopefully a balanced backrow that doesn't give the team masses of workrate with no gain line potential and no dominance in contact in tight (or for that matter even in channel 3.

Yes it’s all about balance, not just in the second row but across the backrow as well. You can’t have Simmons In the second row if you’re planning on having Pooper and likes of Hanigan in the backrow. It’s an all workrate forward pack and no ability to get over the advantage line.

These forums seem quite intent on a Pooper pairing, in which case you need your second rowers and blindside to carry the burden of getting across the advantage line. If you have Simmons + Pooper you then need Coleman or Arnold at lock and a 6 who is strong at getting across the advantage line. At the moment Timu is the closest player to filling that role, though I doubt he is up to it at test level yet.

In terms of balance, if you play Pooper then I believe you have to go with Coleman and Arnold, with a Rodda on the bench.

 

[jimmydubs]

The pooper is a crappy idea.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm not sure where this belonged, but Folau just wrote on his instagram that HELL was Gods plan for gay people.........

It hasn't been deleted yet:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhD-TOPhmzX/?taken-by=izzyfolau

 

[Micheal]

My 23 thus far in the season, given incumbency and form:

1. Alaalaatoa
2. Polota-Nau
3. Kepu
4. Phillip
5. Coleman
6. McAffrey
7. Hooper
8. Pocock
9. Genia
10. Foley
11. Koroibete
12. Beale
13. CFS
14. DHP
15. Folau

16. Slipper
17. Paenga-Amosa
18. Sio
19. Rodda / Tui
20. Timu
21. Gordon
22. Hodge / Kerevi / Kuridrani
23. Maddocks

The Front Rowers:

Alaalaatoa has been very handy this season, is a strong scrummager and usurped Sio at the end of last season, did he not?

TPN and Kepu go without saying - class and experience.

Slipper to return to the fold after a strong season, pipping Robertson (who has regressed), Sio to join him on the bench, alongside BPN, who has been really effective in tight and in the set piece this year. Has impressed me the most of all the young hookers.

Tupou just not quite there yet, given the class frontrow stocks. After the RWC, Kepu will bugger off and he'll come into the 23 (if there are no injuries).

Second Row:

Coleman, despite a slow start to the season, to maintain his spot in the XV due to his class, aggression and leadership. Philip to continue his rise and be rewarded with a starting spot due to his position as the form Australian lock this season.

One of Rodda, Tui or Arnold to be included on the bench. At this stage I'd take Rodda, but Tui could make a late surge.

Back Row:

The Pooper to return and reign supreme. Both solid ball-runners (Hooper moreso), dominant defenders, strong over the ball (Hooper made turnovers on the weekend - deal with it) and two of the best players in the world.

McAffrey has had a really strong season, and provides another viable ball-running option whilst not yielding any mongrel, athleticism or set-piece proficiency. A far better version of Hanigan.

Halves:

Genia-Foley-Beale playing making axis. Duh. Beale to cover 10, with Maddocks or Hodge to cover an injury crisis there from the bench.

Backline:

Kuridrani has had a slow start to the season, and CFS, Hodge or Kerevi should take his place at the start of the season.

Koroibete to win a starting wing spot due to his sheer firepower, and DHP to maintain a spot to play 2nd fullback. His experience is too good to give up, but he's had an average season. Maddocks, Hodge and Naivalu will be pressing for this position.

Reserve Backs:

One of Kuridrani, Kerevi and Hodge on the bench to cover the sentences.

Maddocks, one of Australia's most promising talents, still has the occassional brainfart in defence or by throwing a stupid offload. Ease him into the camp via the bench. Can cover 11, 15 and 10.

 

[jimmydubs]

1 Queensland Red in the 15? 1?
McPooper? You're having a giraffe.

 

[TSR]

I wouldn’t be confident CFS will get the nod over Kuridrani either. Despite performing above most people’s expectations I am not sure that there will be a flood of new Wallabies starters from the Reds unless there are injuries to incumbants. They are still only third in the conference for starters, and there are a good number of players who just aren’t in the frame, even though they are currently playing well as a team.

Either Slipper or Sio will start - I know Ala'alatoa has played LHP previously but he is entrench d at THP now. Cheika won’t start 2 tight heads and have two looseheads on the bench. I agree Tupou will probably not start, although I think there is a strong chance of him being on the bench. Rodda (and possibly Tui) will challenge for starting spots.

I can’t see Timu getting picked with the Pooper. Ironically I feel the best fit for the Pooper is Higgers, but his days in gold appear done. Of the backline the only challenges based on current form will be Kerevi, CFS & possibly Perese. Beale will hold 12, Kuridrani’s past reliability will probably win 13 and I don’t think Perese would provide balance to our back 3 (plus he is not even back on the field yet).

Of course, a couple of injuries and all bets are off.

Edit : I do see the likes of Paenga-Amosa, Timu etc getting bench spots though.

 

[Micheal]

1 Queensland Red in the 15? 1?
McPooper? You're having a giraffe.

That 23 has:

+ 6 Rebels
+ 6 Tahs
+ 5 Reds
+ 4 Brumbies
+ 1 overseas

+ 1 player (Hodge / Kuridrani / Kerevi) from either the Rebels, Brumbies, or Reds.

Given the conference currently sits:

+ Rebels
+ Tahs
+ Reds
+ Brumbies

It doesn't seem that unrealistic. Also, as TSR mentioned, most of the Reds squad are very young and whilst they've played 5/6 good games, they're not exactly guaranteed selections.

They'll work their way in via the bench, and if they continue to perform at Super level, they'll fight their way into the starting XV over time.

 

[Derpus]

I'm not sure where this belonged, but Folau just wrote on his instagram that HELL was Gods plan for gay people...

It hasn't been deleted yet:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhD-TOPhmzX/?taken-by=izzyfolau

Lets be real tea for a second. Who cares what rugby players have to say about anything other than rugby? They are paid to smash their heads into other peoples heads, ya know?

 

[wamberal]

Lets be real tea for a second. Who cares what rugby players have to say about anything other than rugby? They are paid to smash their heads into other peoples heads, ya know?

Totally agree. Although part of my hopes that his teammates let him know what an obnoxious creep he is coming across as.


Invite some of the "Convicts" to sit in the team seating at all of our home games. That should shut him up. They are human beings, Izzy. Your god made them, just as you believe your god made you. Did your god make a mistake?

 

[Zero_Cool]

That 23 has:

+ 6 Rebels
+ 6 Tahs
+ 5 Reds
+ 4 Brumbies
+ 1 overseas

+ 1 player (Hodge / Kuridrani / Kerevi) from either the Rebels, Brumbies, or Reds.

Given the conference currently sits:

+ Rebels
+ Tahs
+ Reds
+ Brumbies

It doesn't seem that unrealistic. Also, as TSR mentioned, most of the Reds squad are very young and whilst they've played 5/6 good games, they're not exactly guaranteed selections.

They'll work their way in via the bench, and if they continue to perform at Super level, they'll fight their way into the starting XV over time.

Firstly, that ladder is wack, the Rebels had the friendliest start to a Super Rugby season I or anyone I've spoken to can remember and they starting to lose their shine now -- I am very doubtful the Rebels keep that number 1 spot for too much longer, I had one friend suggest they might not win another game all season (and while I don't think that's the case looking at their recent form it's possible).

The two best teams have clearly been the Reds and the Waratahs. I'd also point out the Reds have been doing it without Smith or Higgers who would account for two of their 'non-Wallabies' from the XV.

I think the bigger issue is the heavy 'Southern Focus' (NSW and apparently Melbourne) we've seen from the ARU/Cheika in the past few years. I have even heard serious discussion about it from the QRU and I think we'll see a strong attempt to address this coming from the QRU and individuals associated with Queensland Rugby Union in the coming few years. We've seen countless quality players completely cast aside in favour of the 'chosen few' when it comes to Wallabies selection. Just to name a few Fardy and Higgers (who played well in the June Series and was then banished from the squad) would have slotted in perfectly to that 6 spot last year, but instead we get Ned Hanigan... when it was apparent Hanigan wasn't up to the task (after one game) we have the similar but more physical Korczyk in the squad who is ignored and let's not even talk about Fardy -- literally going overseas because he was ignored by Cheika.
Cooper perhaps shouldn't have been starting but after a fine June Series from the bench (I think he only got like 10 minutes of game time, but actually threatened the line unlike we'd done the rest of the series and the EoYT), instead we see him dumped out of the squad, when Foley was out we played fucking Reece Hodge at fly half (I mean we played Beale at fly half and Hodge wore the 10 jersey).

We look at the number of players playing U20's, Australian School Boys, and so on coming from Queensland it's typically around 50% (say 30% to 60%?) so Queensland is producing tallent. Maybe they are going interstate? Yet when it comes to the Wallabies we don't see comparable numbers of Brumbies and Reds players.

I think basing selections on 'how teams are doing' doesn't give us any good indicators, heck counting the numbers of players from the teams doesn't give us a good indication of anything. But over time when you see a consistent pattern of these things then it's time to be concerned.

Edit: regarding 'Cheika's chosen few' as others in the past have pointed out perhaps there are other reasons for these selections like he picks players he's comfortable with or he knows, and he doesn't know / isn't comfortable with the Reds & Brumbies, yes there are a number of explanations for this, but the effect is the same, we have quality players cast aside for players who are playing out of position and often who aren't necessarily as good as / proven to be better than the alternatives and it disenfranchises the upcoming players from the 'undesirables' at the end of the day this is a multi-million dollar organisation and there should be MORE objectivity.

 

[Derpus]

^^^^
Zero i think you can stop replying and we can all just assume you have requested 'more reds please'.

 

[Zero_Cool]

^^^^
Zero i think you can stop replying and we can all just assume you have requested 'more reds please'.

It's not even just the Reds, Fardy is a good example of it, the Force too last year, I see it more with the Reds because I see more of the Reds than the other teams.

 

[Braveheart81]

Which Reds deserve to be in the starting XV, the matchday 23 and the wider squad (let's assume a 33 man squad so 10 extra players from outside the 23)?

Starting XV

???

Matchday 23
17. James Slipper (hard to see him starting ahead of Slipper but it could happen)
19. Izack Rodda
20. Caleb Timu (could be starting, but certainly should be in the squad)
22. Samu Kerevi (could start at 13, could miss the matchday 23 but will certainly be in the squad).

Squad
24. Brandon Paenga-Amosa (I think he should make the squad. He's probably behind Uelese though)
26. Taniela Tupou (I can't see him pushing ahead of Ala'alatoa and Kepu to be in the matchday 23 just yet)
27. Lukhan Tui
29. Adam Korczyk
31. Chris F'Sautia (has been good this season but I can't see him sneaking into the 23 in the first test)
33. Izzy Perese (assuming he makes a good return from injury)

I can't really see any Reds currently making the starting Wallaby XV. You can certainly make a case for a few of them but the player(s) they are competing with for a starting spot is hardly a controversial selection.

 

[Derpus]

Where has Tui been anyway?

Liked his little cameo in our win against the Darkness last year.

 

[Braveheart81]

Where has Tui been anyway?

Liked his little cameo in our win against the Darkness last year.

He got suspended for three games in round 1 for the lifting tackle on Will Genia.

 

[Sully]

Timu in the backrow.
Is Tuttle any worse than any of the other back up halves?
Jono Lance.
What has Uelese done this year to warrant selection?


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Braveheart81]

Timu in the backrow.
Is Tuttle any worse than any of the other back up halves?
Jono Lance.
What has Uelese done this year to warrant selection?

I forgot Timu. He's in my 23.

Tuttle is a maybe. I tend to think he will miss the squad.

Uelese has missed a few games through injury but I tend to think he'll be there on the back of 2017 and doing well for the Wallabies in his limited opportunities. If it's a close run decision on who wears the 16 jersey I'd guess any coach will go with the guy they started investing time in last year.

I would have Lance as a 50/50 to make the squad given he is leaving at the end of the year.