The Wallabies Thread

[RedsHappy]

No not seduced RH, I stick by the primary issue - coaching. In among things I earlier called "trifles" are player performances. I think it's germane to point out the same players we praise on one hand can legitimately be criticised on another. Fans perspective on judging players then falls to either what is considered more important by the fan, or just as likely to cognitive biasses. Of which there are plenty when we start discussions over say, NSW bias, or Quade/Moore/Mumm/Hooper/Phipps hell even Fardy/Higgers etc.

Coaching is our thorn, but you cant really talk about the Wallabies without some discussion on the plyers.

Mate, I am absolutely fine with pages and pages of discussion re our elite players as individuals, who should be selected where and when, etc.

I just believe that 'selections' are not in any way the solution to our core Wallabies problems as at 2017 that are, for example, the difference between team stagnation and genuine team progression (a progression we have not truly seen since Deans departed despite a few performance 'spikes' that were not in any way subsequently consolidated into a new superior platform from which we notched up to the next level and held there).

 

[Brumby Runner]

TOCC, I'd add Lomax (Rebels THP), RHP (Force No 6), Louwrens and Ruru (Force No 9s), Enever (Brumbies Lock) and Falalei Sione (Brumbies LHP) to those names, and just for balance I'd suggest some like Naiyaravoro and Nabuli should be discarded while others like Hanigan and Dempsey be given another year or two to reach their potential.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Naiyaravoro looked bloody useless last night. I hope we never see him in gold again, at least not until he loses some weight and gains some athleticism.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Center depth was a worry until recently and now we could conceivably have Kuridrani, Kerevi, Meakes, Hunt and Beale pushing for a spot. Not a bad problem to have. Same could be said of the wings (though Naivalu should finally be recognized as our best specialist winger).

Hunt and Meakes would make a great 12-13 combo if you are focusing up on tightening the defense.

Add in Hodge as well. I think we must be getting close to accepting that Hodge must play somewhere, and my idea would be to put him at 13 outside Hunt/Meakes at 12. To my eye, Meakes is a 12 rather than 13 in the manner those positions are played by the Wallabies. Meakes and Hunt are alike and probably interchangeable.

 

[Braveheart81]

Naiyaravoro looked bloody useless last night. I hope we never see him in gold again, at least not until he loses some weight and gains some athleticism.

He is hopeless as a starter. With his size he is just nowhere near fit and agile enough to not get found out by any half decent opposition.

I think the only role he can do well at Super Rugby level is as an impact sub where you give him 20 minutes with the plan that he can produce a barnstorming try and not be found out in defence in that time.

His strike rate in scoring tries in this situation is pretty amazing.

I'm in complete agreement that he is nowhere near Wallaby level.

 

[Twoilms]

He is hopeless as a starter. With his size he is just nowhere near fit and agile enough to not get found out by any half decent opposition.

I think the only role he can do well at Super Rugby level is as an impact sub where you give him 20 minutes with the plan that he can produce a barnstorming try and not be found out in defence in that time.

His strike rate in scoring tries in this situation is pretty amazing.

I'm in complete agreement that he is nowhere near Wallaby level.

It was selfish of Cheik to cap him at Wallaby level, and perhaps foolish for Taqele to accept the cap.

 

[Micheal]

Been thinking for a little while and now convinced after tonight's game in Perth. The Wallabies for the RC should be bereft of Tahs altogether.

Comments like this are sensationalist, and ultimately, pretty bloody cooked if you ask me.

Foley, Folau and Hooper have had the Tahs in their collective backpack all year. Having watched the Force game twice, they managed to have strong performances (with Foley and Folau constantly bending the line) in a team that was utterly outclassed. Without those three the Waratahs wouldn't have won a single game this season.

They must, and will be, selected for the Wallabies.

Outside of those three, I do agree with you that other Waratahs should only be considered for a bench spot at the very most. Even then, I would only consider Robertson, Kepu and Latu for these positions.

If I see Dempsey or Hanigan near the Wallabies 23 I will fucking vomit. RHP and Hardwick any day of the week.

I also agree with other posters who suggest that Newsome, Phillip, Meakes, Rona and Lance deserve a shot in the squad.

Likewise with Naisarani the very minute he becomes eligible and Louwrens the very minute he recovers from his injury. Naisarani, in particular, has been an absolute relevation this season.

For me, the 23 would look like:

1-3: Sio, Moore (c), Ala'alatoa
4-5: Coleman, Arnold
6-8: Higgenbotham, Timani, Hooper (vc)
9-10: Genia, Foley
12-13: Hunt, Kerevi
11,14-15: Folau, Naivalu, Beale

16-18: Kepu, TPN, Robertson
19-20: RHP (cov. 4,5,6), Hardwick (cov. 7,8)
21-23: Powell (or Gordon; cov. 9), Hodge (or Meakes or Rona), DHP

With:

+ Coleman, Arnold, Higgenbotham as primary jumpers. Hooper and Timani as 1/2 a jumper each to make up the rest.

+ Louwrens to take spot 21 when returning from injury.

+ Moore to be rotated to the bench after the Rugby Championship, with TPN taking his starting position. Latu to be brought onto the bench to take Moores spot not long after.

+ In the 23: 7 Tahs (incl. Beale), 5 Brumbies, 4 Force, 4 Reds (incl. Genia), 3 Rebels.

 

[Braveheart81]

It was selfish of Cheik to cap him at Wallaby level, and perhaps foolish for Taqele to accept the cap.

Why? It means he maintains the ability to live in Australia and play rugby.

If he wanted to play for Fiji it likely means he has to play in Europe or Japan for the rest of his career.

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[Twoilms]

Why? It means he maintains the ability to live in Australia and play rugby.

If he wanted to play for Fiji it likely means he has to play in Europe or Japan for the rest of his career.

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Because he sacrifices any chance of having a proper international career. Is living/playing in Aus so much better than living in Europe that you would sacrifice the chance at an international career?

I doubt it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Because he sacrifices any chance of having a proper international career. Is living/playing in Aus so much better than living in Europe (it is not) that you would sacrifice the chance at an international career?

Who knows what he wants but if he wants to live in Australia he is in easily the best position to do so.


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[Twoilms]

Comments like this are sensationalist, and ultimately, pretty bloody cooked if you ask me.

Foley, Folau and Hooper have had the Tahs in their collective backpack all year. Having watched the Force game twice, they managed to have strong performances (with Foley and Folau constantly bending the line) in a team that was utterly outclassed. Without those three the Waratahs wouldn't have won a single game this season.

They must, and will be, selected for the Wallabies.

Outside of those three, I do agree with you that other Waratahs should only be considered for a bench spot at the very most. Even then, I would only consider Robertson, Kepu and Latu for these positions.

If I see Dempsey or Hanigan near the Wallabies 23 I will fucking vomit. RHP and Hardwick any day of the week.

I also agree with other posters who suggest that Newsome, Phillip, Meakes, Rona and Lance deserve a shot in the squad.

Likewise with Naisarani the very minute he becomes eligible and Louwrens the very minute he recovers from his injury. Naisarani, in particular, has been an absolute relevation this season.

For me, the 23 would look like:

1-3: Sio, Moore (c), Ala'alatoa
4-5: Coleman, Arnold
6-8: Higgenbotham, Timani, Hooper (vc)
9-10: Genia, Foley
12-13: Hunt, Kerevi
11,14-15: Folau, Naivalu, Beale

16-18: Kepu, TPN, Robertson
19-20: RHP (cov. 4,5,6), Hardwick (cov. 7,8)
21-23: Powell (or Gordon; cov. 9), Hodge (or Meakes or Rona), DHP

With:

+ Coleman, Arnold, Higgenbotham as primary jumpers. Hooper and Timani as 1/2 a jumper each to make up the rest.

+ Louwrens to take spot 21 when returning from injury.

+ Moore to be rotated to the bench after the Rugby Championship, with TPN taking his starting position. Latu to be brought onto the bench to take Moores spot not long after.

+ In the 23: 7 Tahs (incl. Beale), 5 Brumbies, 4 Force, 4 Reds (incl. Genia), 3 Rebels.

I'm not convinced Folau has found form again. Robertson in no way deserves to be anywhere near the Wallabies. Kepu has lost most of the form that he achieved in the World Cup but probably hangs onto his bench spot. Foley is there by default. None of Phipps, Lucas or Powell have done enough to warrant a bench spot (as much as i dislike having Powell there).

It seems many Tah players are still in because there is a perception that there are no viable alternatives.

To be honest, i wouldn't mind seeing some of the Tahs players fucked off entirely.

Still think Hooper should be starting 7 and Wallabies captain though.

 

[Micheal]

I'm not convinced Folau has found form again. Robertson in no way deserves to be anywhere near the Wallabies. Kepu has lost most of the form that he achieved in the World Cup but probably hangs onto his bench spot. Foley is there by default. None of Phipps, Lucas or Powell have done enough to warrant a bench spot (as much as i dislike having Powell there).

It seems many Tah players are still in because there is a perception that there are no viable alternatives.

To be honest, i wouldn't mind seeing some of the Tahs players fucked off entirely.

Still think Hooper should be starting 7 and Wallabies captain though.

Folau scored 5-6 tries in the 3 June internationals and against the Force he:

+ Ran 80m with ball in hand (#1 across both teams).
+ Had 4 defenders beaten (#1 across both teams).
+ Threw 3 clean offloads (#2 behind Foley across both teams).

If that's not form, at least relative to the Force outside backs, then I don't know what is.

Personally, I think he's looked very dangerous throughout all of Super Rugby (constantly threatening against the Force) but the pervasive feeling here seems to be that if Folau is:

a) one of the best on the field, then he's not doing enough.
b) the best on the field, then it's scarcely enough.

Ditto for Foley.

I can't, and don't want to, argue with your analysis of Kepu and Robertson however - they've both been fairly torrid this season.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm not convinced Folau has found form again. Robertson in no way deserves to be anywhere near the Wallabies. Kepu has lost most of the form that he achieved in the World Cup but probably hangs onto his bench spot. Foley is there by default. None of Phipps, Lucas or Powell have done enough to warrant a bench spot (as much as i dislike having Powell there).

It seems many Tah players are still in because there is a perception that there are no viable alternatives.

To be honest, i wouldn't mind seeing some of the Tahs players fucked off entirely.

Still think Hooper should be starting 7 and Wallabies captain though.

In terms of Robertson, I agree he has gone backwards this year but the reality is the other options aren't crash hot either.

Toby Smith got absolutely dished up in the June test against Italy and is playing in New Zealand next year.

The reality is that after Sio it is pretty unclear who the LHP selections should be. No one is standing out.

Phipps will probably be one of the three halfbacks and I think will be the bench option to start the Rugby Championship based on his experience. Again I think it is due to their being no clear cut option.

 

[wamberal]

I wonder whether Robertson is finding it tough to combine his studies and his rugby?

 

[Twoilms]

In terms of Robertson, I agree he has gone backwards this year but the reality is the other options aren't crash hot either.

Toby Smith got absolutely dished up in the June test against Italy and is playing in New Zealand next year.

The reality is that after Sio it is pretty unclear who the LHP selections should be. No one is standing out.

Phipps will probably be one of the three halfbacks and I think will be the bench option to start the Rugby Championship based on his experience. Again I think it is due to their being no clear cut option.

Wouldn't mind seeing some un-fancied option tried at LHP.

On an unrelated note, is Naisarani eligible for Australia?

 

[Shiggins]

Coleman is the first pick for the wallabies now. Even before Izzy. He is the most important player we have

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[Micheal]

I wonder whether Robertson is finding it tough to combine his studies and his rugby?

Medicine isn't available as a part-time degree, so he's dropped in to focus on rugby full time.

Wouldn't mind seeing some un-fancied option tried at LHP.

On an unrelated note, is Naisarani eligible for Australia?

I've heard he's not until 2018. I've been very impressed with him this season though - I think he's been the form 8 in the Australian conference (besides perhaps Mafi).

 

[Shiggins]

When you realise the tahs have only won 4 games this year it's really sobering. As a force supporter. I think we need to pick players that are showing form in super rugby and force the current guys that always get picked to work harder. We have some competition but when they know they get picked on previous form there isn't any drive. Drop their arses and pick players who have form and heart. How long did it take for sharpe to get picked again. Ages. And it was a huge mistake. He should of played many more test

Nick Cummins is another example who had super rugby form but wants picked over average east coast players because they were already wallabies and incumbent.

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[Twoilms]

Medicine isn't available as a part-time degree, so he's dropped in to focus on rugby full time.




I've heard he's not until 2018. I've been very impressed with him this season though - I think he's been the form 8 in the Australian conference (besides perhaps Mafi).

This sounds like an angry and abrasive pack to me:

Arnold Coleman
Hooper, Naisarani, Timani

Bit shite in the lineout though.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Why? It means he maintains the ability to live in Australia and play rugby.

If he wanted to play for Fiji it likely means he has to play in Europe or Japan for the rest of his career.

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And earn quite a bit more coin. Not a bad career move I'd have said.