The Wallabies Thread

[Scrubber2050]

Quade suits a very specific style of game, he thrives in up tempo games with a mobile forward pack to cover a lot of ground and backs running varied lines and angles. That wasn't the style of game that RG coached and it's not the way the Wallabies are playing at the moment either.

Quade would go no better then Foley in the current Wallabies game plan..

TOCC - you are stating the obvious

Every 10 in the world would "thrive on a up tempo games with a mobile forward pack to cover a lot of ground and backs running varied lines and angles"

Trouble is, finding that forward pack combined with those backs - ain't easy

 

[Viking]

Foley has only ever shined with a forward pack going forward. Last weekend is a prime example of him struggling with a beaten pack. The only time he plays well is with a competitive forward pack (RWC, Tahs), plus he also needs a second play-maker, he has struggled every other time without those two variables.

TOCC - The argument against Quade is unjust given it's an issue for both players.

Quade actually has a decent kicking game. His skill-set is probably more suited to a beaten forward pack, The problem with Quade is his erratic decision making and now a loss of a decent running game.

This is where Foley completely outshines Quade, his current running game.

 

[fatprop]

OK, I will bite, which 10s shine with their forward pack going backwards?

 

[USARugger]

Can I just point out that Scrubber made one of the most balanced and reasonable posts in this thread over the last few pages

Everyone feeling ok?

 

[I like to watch]

you're right they are different players, ones a playmaker who creates opportunities for his outside backs, and the others Bernard Foley. The difference between Noddy and Foley is that Noddy was one of our greatest ever kickers whereas foley isnt any better then cooper both from the tee and in general play. Foley needs Beale or Giteau to make him look like a good option because he cant create many opportunities for the other backs himself.

I'm not trying to hate on foley as much as it seems, i think hes a wonderful player who has a lot of good traits, but i value playmaking, his ability to create opportunities for the other players, above all others when it comes to flyhalves and when Foley isnt any better at kicking or defending then Quade, and is definitely not as good at passing as Cooper then i dont see a lot of reasons to have foley there instead . now whos to say Quade wont come back and be as inconsistent as ever? he might be. i put that inconsistency down to not playing a lot of footy since 2013 where he was fantastic for the wallabies.

Cheika wants his 10 to be a runner,and his 12 to do the ball playing.
Unfortunately we are all out of those 12's atm.
Picking Quade in a Cheika team is putting a square peg in a round hole.
Which is unfortunate IMO.
I think he might still have something to offer in the right structure.

 

[TOCC]

TOCC - you are stating the obvious

Every 10 in the world would "thrive on a up tempo games with a mobile forward pack to cover a lot of ground and backs running varied lines and angles"

Trouble is, finding that forward pack combined with those backs - ain't easy

Well if it's the fucken obvious then people would stop calling for Quade to come back to the starting role every time Foley has a shit game.

Not every team can play that style of the game, or more specifically not every coach can coach that sort of game. Some 5/8 are suited to low risk percentage test rugby.

I'm sure every 5/8 would like to think that they would like to play in the high tempo style of of game but some do it better then others, specifically Quade does it better then others.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Well if it's the fucken obvious then people would stop calling for Quade to come back to the starting role every time Foley has a shit game.

Not every team can play that style of the game, or more specifically not every coach can coach that sort of game. Some 5/8 are suited to low risk percentage test rugby.

I'm sure every 5/8 would like to think that they would like to play in the high tempo style of of game but some do it better then others, specifically Quade does it better then others.

To be threat to Foley (who, is playing poorly) QC (Quade Cooper) needs a GOOD consistent Super season.

He has or had mojo - he needs to show he STILL has it on on a CONSISTENT basis. Whether at the Reds (hopefully) or Rebels.

 

[Lee Enfield]

Maybe if Foley stopped having so many shit games, those calls wouldn't come. If Foley needs a second playmaker, that says more about his deficiencies as a 10.

I would take a player like Quade who when under pressure, still try's to influence the game. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but at least he tries. Overall the only team Quade has had real problems against is the All Blacks, and well, he ain't the only player with that problem.
Whereas Foley in the same situation just goes awol, then gets defended by the masses absolving him of any blame cause he didn't have a second playmaker at 10, or the forwards were going backwards.

I am not saying Quade is the answer, but the Wallabies should try To'omua, Lilo and Quade at 10, cause we know what we are getting with Foley, not much.

 

[Scrubber2050]

and in that order Lee

 

[Viking]

OK, I will bite, which 10s shine with their forward pack going backwards?

Johnny Wilkinson, Dan Carter. Cos at least they still kick goals.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

Cheika wants his 10 to be a runner,and his 12 to do the ball playing.
Unfortunately we are all out of those 12's atm.
Picking Quade in a Cheika team is putting a square peg in a round hole.
Which is unfortunate IMO.
I think he might still have something to offer in the right structure.

I agree, but why would Cheika then pick a backline for this series that doesnt have a single playmaker in it? Man we missed beale this series

 

[fatprop]

Johnny Wilkinson, Dan Carter. Cos at least they still kick goals.

yeah, because when your forwards are going backward you just get so many opportunities to kick goals

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I agree, but why would Cheika then pick a backline for this series that doesnt have a single playmaker in it? Man we missed beale this series

In fairness, there were basically none available. Mrs Lilo was having a baby, Gits apparently not available, To'omua and Beale injured. The only option was to go with K-Squared. Not ideal but there you go.

 

[Viking]

yeah, because when your forwards are going backward you just get so many opportunities to kick goals

A strong goal-kicker always makes a difference. How bloody rare is a game of rugby where their wasn't at least one penalty or conversion.

 

[I like to watch]

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make Seb.
If you are suggesting we might have won last week without Foley, who would have replaced him?
Foley with all his limitations was still the best option IMO.

 

[Scrubber2050]

A strong goal-kicker always makes a difference. How bloody rare is a game of rugby where their wasn't at least one penalty or conversion.

Maybe that's why Hooper made that awful decision not to take the "giveme" kick. Foley would have got that one using a headbutt

 

[RedsHappy]

TOCC - you are stating the obvious

Every 10 in the world would "thrive on a up tempo games with a mobile forward pack to cover a lot of ground and backs running varied lines and angles"

Trouble is, finding that forward pack combined with those backs - ain't easy

Additionally Scrubber and moreover people seem to have entirely forgotten that QC (Quade Cooper) in his golden year of 2011 in fact played a wonderfully versatile set of 10 roles when adapting to the varied games plans so masterfully designed by Link and his coaching group that year.

In fact it was the correctness and skill of these varied plans that typically outfoxed the opponent that contributed mightily to the Reds success that year.

Just take the S15 2011 game Reds v Stormers away at Newlands. The Reds won that through a really skilful long kicking and territory game, it was low and slow scoring, QC (Quade Cooper)'s patience in attack and kicking from hand was outstanding and it totally befuddled the opposition. It was not a BBQ rugby runaroundathon at all. Only one try was scored all match.

Contrast that with the dynamic, ball-in-hand and highly mobile style of game the Reds played twice that year vs the Blues.

Our forwards were by no means dominant when the Wallabies played the ABs in Dunedin in late 2013. But QC (Quade Cooper) played a wonderfully controlled role at 10 that night and was widely credited for his complete skills under that relentless type of AB pressure.

QC (Quade Cooper)'s playing history - when viewed with no biases - reveals a very skilled and versatile 10.

What it does not reveal - perhaps tragically as it will be seen in future years - is consistency. And this is principally where Foley has outpointed him, and regularly and rightly so.

QC (Quade Cooper)'s moments of greatness, came, and went, and glimmers came back. But not for long enough periods. And recently in national colours we've had the reckless YCs and other signs of a lost confidence and poise.

But I still smile a happy smile whenever I see his photo. He lit up a wonderful year of my rugby-loving life unlike nothing that had gone before, or has come since.

 

[Scrubber2050]

The thread is 2016 and Onwards

Genuinely happy if QC (Quade Cooper) returns to Ballymore. I think we'd see a sightly more demure QC (Quade Cooper), one that is more a part of a team and its culture than the one from some years ago.

I would be surprised to see him at Wallaby level either at the Rugby Championship or EOYT 2016.

I reckon he just needs to rebuild confidence in a Super 15 season behind, what looks to be, a very good and dominant Reds pack. He may just have the room to weave the magic

Once successfully done, then be in the Wallaby mix

 

[Train Without a Station]

Well Quade has notified Toulon he won't be taking up his 2nd year with them with the intention of heading back to Australia. So he's pretty applicable to any discussion 2016 and onwards.

As for your comment, "more a part of a team and its culture", what absolute rubbish. We get it. You dislike any player who was highly rated as a youngster. That's evidenced in your comments about Quade Cooper, Ben Daley, UJ Seuteni, Karmichael Hunt and others over the years.

There's been nothing to ever suggest he was not part of a team or the culture. That's just something you throw on because you don't like him in some way and are trying to justify it somehow.

 

[Braveheart81]

As for being more demure, do you think that will mean he wears less sleeveless tops when he is out and about?